Time for B Teams

[thekorean]

3 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

But there is relegation and promotion in Europe?

And I'll concede some sports are like that in America but being a big fan of American sports they seem to be even worse when it comes to win all costs with the youths!!! Especially in sports like American football!

I thought all European leagues used promotion/relegation? Sorry, did not mean European competition specifically, meant European domestic leagues.

In America, because there are no pro/rel, rebuilding teams just throw out their youths against players in their prime without much concern for the results as long as the players in question develops.

[1320Lichtie]

I thought all European leagues used promotion/relegation? Sorry, did not mean European competition specifically, meant European domestic leagues.
In America, because there are no pro/rel, rebuilding teams just throw out their youths against players in their prime without much concern for the results as long as the players in question develops.

That's totally different. The equivalent of a team going for a target, realising they won't manage it, and then look to build towards the next campaign. This happens in international football and club football in Europe too. I've no problem with that.

PROPER TEAMS doing it though in the hope they will one day be competitive. Not Colt teams doing it with no ambition to ever be competitive.

It's not even comparable.

[Tulloch Gorum]

Here's the results of the Scottish Supporter's Network consultation - unsurprisingly overwhelmingly opposed.  Still plenty of time to be writing to your club/ supporters' trust etc to let them know what you think.  Our trust ran a consultation poll, and came up with this.

POLL RESULTS - 19/6/2017 - Total votes cast 212

Question: Should Colt/B-teams be allowed entry into the Scottish League set up.

Results: NO - 89% (188 VOTES) YES - 11% (24 VOTES)

The Trust have asked that these points are taken into consideration when any decision is made on the proposal.

Obviously that's a fairly small amount of actual people, but the feeling on our FB page and Twitter was pretty clear.  We need to mobilise fans against this through the channels we have at our disposal, because there is a less than 0% chance that the SPFL will have any kind of meaningful, formal consultation with fans.  

[DA Baracus]

The following under 20s teams were pumped out of the Irn Bru Cup tonight;

Celtic (beaten by Annan)

Hibs (beaten by Elgin)

Kilmarnock (beaten by Berwick)

St Johnstone (beaten by Aberdeen under 20s)

Hearts under 20s are currently in extra time against Formatine.

Hamilton under 20s and Partick under 20s made it through, beating Edinburgh City and Stirling Uni, and as mentioned Aberdeen under 20s beat St Johnstone under 20s (utterly negating the supposed point of such teams being in the cup in the first place). Tomorrow sees Dundee, Motherwell and Sevco under 20s enter the competition, playing Alloa, Queens Park and Dumbarton.

[1320Lichtie]

Did anyone hear Dave Mackay last night.

These are a no go. Barely discussed after someone pointed out that lower league clubs are massively against them. They discussed other options/points about young guys having to get a chance at their own clubs which was promising to hear.

[DA Baracus]

Re guys getting a chance at their own club; PJ Crossan was breaking in to our first team and starting to make appearances for us. Celtic swooped in and took him. He played tonight for Celtic under 20s, losing 3-1 at Annan.

 

This is one of the reasons it's hard to bring through youth players, as they often get signed and stockpiled by Celtic. What would have been better for Crossan; becoming a first team regular for us or going to play in Celtic under 20s?

[1320Lichtie]

Re guys getting a chance at their own club; PJ Crossan was breaking in to our first team and starting to make appearances for us. Celtic swooped in and took him. He played tonight for Celtic under 20s, losing 3-1 at Annan.

 

This is one of the reasons it's hard to bring through youth players, as they often get signed and stockpiled by Celtic. What would have been better for Crossan; becoming a first team regular for us or going to play in Celtic under 20s?

 

Definitely being with you boys. They made the same point about Billy Gilmour. There's a lot too that, great at a younger level, go to a big club where they're stock piled. Don't fulfill potential at 17-21 as they're not getting into their first teams.

[football maniac]

2 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

The following under 20s teams were pumped out of the Irn Bru Cup tonight;

Celtic (beaten by Annan)

Hibs (beaten by Elgin)

Kilmarnock (beaten by Berwick)

St Johnstone (beaten by Aberdeen under 20s)

Hearts under 20s are currently in extra time against Formatine.

Hamilton under 20s and Partick under 20s made it through, beating Edinburgh City and Stirling Uni, and as mentioned Aberdeen under 20s beat St Johnstone under 20s (utterly negating the supposed point of such teams being in the cup in the first place). Tomorrow sees Dundee, Motherwell and Sevco under 20s enter the competition, playing Alloa, Queens Park and Dumbarton.

Not that big a gap though. Celtic were playing with 10 men most of the game. Hibs lost a last minute goal. Your missing Ross County who beat league 1 Forfar. Hearts ended up turning it around. Fair play. These teams didn't disgrace themselves at all which might be encouraging as it shows we have some youngsters who already can compete with some seasoned pros. So taking away Aberdeen 4 got through against senior teams and 3 got put out. Not a bad ratio if you ask me.

[peternapper]

12 hours ago, football maniac said:

Not that big a gap though. Celtic were playing with 10 men most of the game. Hibs lost a last minute goal. Your missing Ross County who beat league 1 Forfar. Hearts ended up turning it around. Fair play. These teams didn't disgrace themselves at all which might be encouraging as it shows we have some youngsters who already can compete with some seasoned pros. So taking away Aberdeen 4 got through against senior teams and 3 got put out. Not a bad ratio if you ask me.

The results in this does not matter, the important thing is the ultimate goal of those behind this is gaining league places for some of these Colt teams. That should not be allowed to happen to appease a few Premier League clubs & quite possibly eventually mean existing clubs losing a place in the league. Sort out a competitive Reserve league for clubs wishing to give players game time rather than make a mockery of lower leagues & this cup in the country.

[DA Baracus]

13 hours ago, football maniac said:

Not that big a gap though. Celtic were playing with 10 men most of the game. Hibs lost a last minute goal. Your missing Ross County who beat league 1 Forfar. Hearts ended up turning it around. Fair play. These teams didn't disgrace themselves at all which might be encouraging as it shows we have some youngsters who already can compete with some seasoned pros. So taking away Aberdeen 4 got through against senior teams and 3 got put out. Not a bad ratio if you ask me.

You can't actually be making the point that it's beneficial to anyone?

[WILLIEA]

4 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

You can't actually be making the point that it's beneficial to anyone?

Should remove the word football from his username imo.

[DA Baracus]

And it's farewell to Dundee and Sevco under 20s. Motherwell under 20s go through after beating Queens Park

[football maniac]

On ‎16‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 12:58, DA Baracus said:

You can't actually be making the point that it's beneficial to anyone?

Its beneficial to the u20s and potentially our future international players. Clubs who they are playing might spot their potential and five them a chance with a loan spell at their club. Its as close to a 1st team environment as it might get for some of them and will give them a taste of what is required. If they are capable of beating the likes of Queens Park and Forfar then why should we be so snobbish to them in this competition? None have been disgraced at all. I would understand it if they were losing 8-0 or something the need to remove them but from what I can see in a football sense they have been not bad. 

[DA Baracus]

1 hour ago, football maniac said:

Its beneficial to the u20s and potentially our future international players. Clubs who they are playing might spot their potential and five them a chance with a loan spell at their club. Its as close to a 1st team environment as it might get for some of them and will give them a taste of what is required. If they are capable of beating the likes of Queens Park and Forfar then why should we be so snobbish to them in this competition? None have been disgraced at all. I would understand it if they were losing 8-0 or something the need to remove them but from what I can see in a football sense they have been not bad. 

All pish and all shite. 

Most players good enough at that age will already be playing for their team or at least out on loan, not rotting away in a shite under 20s team. You say they're capable of beating a couple of teams, but you're cherry picking. The majority of the under 20s teams were put out in their very first game. They HAVE been bad save for a couple of results.

Plus as we all know this whole farce is nothing to do with bringing through players, so stop pretending it is.

[football maniac]

9 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

All pish and all shite. 

Most players good enough at that age will already be playing for their team or at least out on loan, not rotting away in a shite under 20s team. You say they're capable of beating a couple of teams, but you're cherry picking. The majority of the under 20s teams were put out in their very first game. They HAVE been bad save for a couple of results.

Plus as we all know this whole farce is nothing to do with bringing through players, so stop pretending it is.

No I know what your getting at and the idea of having colts teams eventually entering the leagues doesn't appeal to many. Ignoring the overall plan though its interesting to gauge the difference in quality between u20s and lower league teams. Its not as big as I thought. I honestly thought there wouldn't be a chance any colts teams would win because as you say you would expect most to be playing first team/already loaned out so these chain of results in which none were thrashed and some even won was somewhat surprising. If we are being honest attendances over the years showed no one really gave much of a damn about the challenge cup till the latter stages and this is still true to some degree. So if there is a tournament to experiment on then this is the one. The Irish and Welsh teams also provide fresh excitement.

Maybe one day the Spl teams will be invited into the English version of the diddy tournament. That would certainly give the fans a thrill with the whole Scotland v England thing. This could be seen as the breakthrough moment for the Old Firm to get their wish of a move to England. If that were to happen then chances are there colts teams will be accepted in.

 

[Jan Vojáček]

19 hours ago, football maniac said:

Its beneficial to the u20s and potentially our future international players. Clubs who they are playing might spot their potential and five them a chance with a loan spell at their club. Its as close to a 1st team environment as it might get for some of them and will give them a taste of what is required. If they are capable of beating the likes of Queens Park and Forfar then why should we be so snobbish to them in this competition? None have been disgraced at all. I would understand it if they were losing 8-0 or something the need to remove them but from what I can see in a football sense they have been not bad. 

The whole point of the 'Colts' introduction is to effectively end the loan market. Your Joe Thomsons (in Queens' case) of the future would instead spend their time playing for Celtic 'Colts' in League 2.

[football maniac]

4 hours ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

The whole point of the 'Colts' introduction is to effectively end the loan market. Your Joe Thomsons (in Queens' case) of the future would instead spend their time playing for Celtic 'Colts' in League 2.

People will argue that all the guys playing together in a team in a competitive environment might be more beneficial than having players spread all over the place on loan. The Germans with Ozil and the like grew together as part of the same team. 

[Jan Vojáček]

1 minute ago, football maniac said:

People will argue that all the guys playing together in a team in a competitive environment might be more beneficial than having players spread all over the place on loan. The Germans with Ozil and the like grew together as part of the same team. 

Internationally they do play together in competitive games and friendlies - Özil never played for a B team, so his only experience playing with his future world cup winning teammates would've been for Germany U19s/21s etc.

Playing on-loan is far more competitive than playing for an U20s side where, even in the League system, the results would be secondary to 'development'.

[football maniac]

10 minutes ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

Internationally they do play together in competitive games and friendlies - Özil never played for a B team, so his only experience playing with his future world cup winning teammates would've been for Germany U19s/21s etc.

Playing on-loan is far more competitive than playing for an U20s side where, even in the League system, the results would be secondary to 'development'.

Yeah the thing that sucks with B teams is they can only get to a certain point and would only be in the league for development purposes. It would be beneficial though if we could somehow get groups of the same players playing at a good level who could gel and know each others game inside out. Celtic to some degree have done this and imo this has been a massive factor in Scotlands upturn in form.

[EdTheDuck]

1 hour ago, football maniac said:

Yeah the thing that sucks with B teams is they can only get to a certain point and would only be in the league for development purposes. It would be beneficial though if we could somehow get groups of the same players playing at a good level who could gel and know each others game inside out. Celtic to some degree have done this and imo this has been a massive factor in Scotlands upturn in form.

When was this? Did I miss something?