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There's nothing wrong with sanctioning IF it's done properly and for the right reasons.

What's the right reason for forcing someone to starve for a week?

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What's the right reason for forcing someone to starve for a week?

Read my whole post and not just the first sentence.

Ta.

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Mark Robot Arm

14h
My partner - a teacher - caught a child at her school one Monday morning eating ketchup from sachets he'd taken from the dinner hall...

Iain-Duncan-Smith.jpg

Mark Robot Arm 14h
...he'd barely eaten over the weekend and was desperate. That's your Tory Britain. That's Cameron's compassionate Conservatism, right there.

Iain-Duncan-Smith.jpg

Mark Robot Arm 14h
After taking him to breakfast club and getting him some proper food, the school called the boy's mum. She hadn't eaten for nearly a week.

Iain-Duncan-Smith.jpg

Mark Robot Arm

13h
She'd been sanctioned. There isn't a foodbank within 10 miles and she didn't have the bus fare to go there anyway.

Iain-Duncan-Smith.jpg

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They shouldn't have to be. Whether Indy Scotland or in UK we are a wealthy nation who can easily afford to make sure everyone is clothed fed and warm.

Sanctions are a disgusting ideological attack on the most vulnerable motivated by nothing other than a desire to demonise and divide people.

Maybe they shouldn't, but we don't live in an ideal world. Anyone working with children or who have regular contact with vulnerable people should be fully trained up on spotting the signs. Not just for poverty but also for signs of abuse. I've sat in meetings with social services and other service providers and most of the time the cause is the parents mental illness. In one case I had a couple who had a petty fall out about who did what jobs in the house and it ended up with them both stubbornly refusing to do anything, including the shopping or feeding the kids. It only came to light when the school raised concerns.

The world can be a horrible place sometimes, so it's vital teachers are trained to spot any signs.

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What's the right reason for forcing someone to starve for a week?

I don't agree with most of these sanctions, but if someone can't be arsed to attend the job centre, they aren't being forced to starve, they've made a choice. There are examples of situations where people should be sanctioned clearly. If as someone said, they have children, then they're failing to provide for them through their own choices and social services need to be involved.

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Read my whole post and not just the first sentence.

Ta.

Regardless of what point you're making, there is no justification for leaving a parent without any money for food for their child over a weekend/ week/ any period of time.

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Regardless of what point you're making, there is no justification for leaving a parent without any money for food for their child over a weekend/ week/ any period of time.

I didn't say there was.

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Maybe they shouldn't, but we don't live in an ideal world. Anyone working with children or who have regular contact with vulnerable people should be fully trained up on spotting the signs. Not just for poverty but also for signs of abuse. I've sat in meetings with social services and other service providers and most of the time the cause is the parents mental illness. In one case I had a couple who had a petty fall out about who did what jobs in the house and it ended up with them both stubbornly refusing to do anything, including the shopping or feeding the kids. It only came to light when the school raised concerns.

The world can be a horrible place sometimes, so it's vital teachers are trained to spot any signs.

Well done on completely missing the point.

You're quite correct teachers and social services should always be trained to spot signs of neglect.

The reason it is happening now is in our imperfect world there is an increase in kids in Scotland not eating.

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Well done on completely missing the point.

You're quite correct teachers and social services should always be trained to spot signs of neglect.

The reason it is happening now is in our imperfect world there is an increase in kids in Scotland not eating.

Your evidence was that teachers are now having to be trained. It would be interesting to see some proper evidence to find out if the number of cases are increasing or not.

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I wasn't insinuating it was a positive measure.

Oh don't worry I wasn't suggesting you were.

Related to the "if someone can't be arsed to get up" thing that is almost definitely down to perception and there could be a whole variety of reasons why they aren't seeking work. For example severe social anxiety or other mental illnesses. This isn't always diagnosed and attempts to outright punish people for this will inevitably leave people who don't deserve (by most people's measure anyway) it being sanctioned and left starving.

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I'm dependant on the benefit system at the moment. Not how I planned life to pan out. Anyway the PIP system has been an utter nightmare and had I been able to afford tell them to shove it, I would of. Sending award notices while ATOS are still calling for evidence

From GP, sending appointments for assessments and then being told it was error before being sent further letter demanding explanation for not going of my claim

Would be cancelled.

I have a mental health condition.

I like to think I'm not stupid but goodness help those who may not be the sharpest.

I'm not against being assessed and there being safeguards against fraud. I am against 18 months of assessments and errors.

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I'm dependant on the benefit system at the moment. Not how I planned life to pan out. Anyway the PIP system has been an utter nightmare and had I been able to afford tell them to shove it, I would of. Sending award notices while ATOS are still calling for evidence

From GP, sending appointments for assessments and then being told it was error before being sent further letter demanding explanation for not going of my claim

Would be cancelled.

I have a mental health condition.

I like to think I'm not stupid but goodness help those who may not be the sharpest.

I'm not against being assessed and there being safeguards against fraud. I am against 18 months of assessments and errors.

I don't think anyone should kid themselves that fit for work tests and the like are an almost impossible to navigate minefield on purpose.

Man, this Government sucks.

:(

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I had pretty much the same assessment twice, once for ESA and once for PIP. because the GP and psychologist who've both been working with me for ten years couldn't possibly be trusted to give accurate info!!

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I had pretty much the same assessment twice, once for ESA and once for PIP. because the GP and psychologist who've both been working with me for ten years couldn't possibly be trusted to give accurate info!!

If you haven't already, get your local council's Welfare Rights involved.

Probably won't apply to a lot of posters here but it's often worth getting help with your claim forms from Welfare rights people or CAB at a push.

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I'm dependant on the benefit system at the moment. Not how I planned life to pan out. Anyway the PIP system has been an utter nightmare and had I been able to afford tell them to shove it, I would of. Sending award notices while ATOS are still calling for evidence

From GP, sending appointments for assessments and then being told it was error before being sent further letter demanding explanation for not going of my claim

Would be cancelled.

I have a mental health condition.

I like to think I'm not stupid but goodness help those who may not be the sharpest.

I'm not against being assessed and there being safeguards against fraud. I am against 18 months of assessments and errors.

I work in General Practice and have done a bit of training on PIP; IMO PIP is a good thing for those with a physical issue, but those suffering from a Mental Health condition such as Anxiety far less so.

I have contact details for Money Matters if you want them. Let me know and I will drop you a PM.

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In Scotland today teachers are now being trained to spot signs of malnutrition and hunger in children.

Good. This should be standard practice for anyone working with children or vulnerable young adults, regardless of what condition the benefits system is in.

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I don't agree with most of these sanctions, but if someone can't be arsed to attend the job centre, they aren't being forced to starve, they've made a choice. There are examples of situations where people should be sanctioned clearly. If as someone said, they have children, then they're failing to provide for them through their own choices and social services need to be involved.

So not only stop their benefits but put their children into care, with that magnificent track record? I don't know if you know, or hope you don't, how brutal the interview techniques have become in the trial areas of Universal Credit. I spent a short time last year enduring it, as a relatively stable and intelligent client/customer/whatever. It was horrendous, I was supposed to prove in a diary that I'd spent 35 hours a week looking for jobs, when I suggested it would be impossible they said to pretend I had to walk to Nairn and back for an interview which would fill in a few hours. I got a 4 week sanction for saying my dog ate the diary, but luckily I got a job a couple of days later.

I don't really have a dog.

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Thanks guys, I'm sorted for now I hope. I can't cope with advocacy agencies.

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