Enigma Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Welshbairn logic - France is responsible for the Holocaust as France was governed by Germany at the time Germany carried out the Holocaust. Good one. Yet your logic is probably more like Bavaria isn’t partly responsible as it was ruled be evil Berlin, let’s just forgot most of the architects of it were Bavarian, Bavarian people would have wilfully aided it etc etc. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 22 minutes ago, Enigma said: Yet your logic is probably more like Bavaria isn’t partly responsible as it was ruled be evil Berlin, let’s just forgot most of the architects of it were Bavarian, Bavarian people would have wilfully aided it etc etc. Were most of the architects of the British empire Scottish? Did the people of Bavaria riot en masses when they were forced to become part of Germany? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisal Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 23 hours ago, Baxter Parp said: I think you'll find that the only reason you've seen it is because some piece of shit created it. No you're wrong if it had been left at that I wouldn't have seen it. I only saw it because an SNP MP retweeted it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Glasgow built its wealth on the backs of African slaves and you would accept this if you listened to their descendants. It’s utterly embarrassing that people think the best way to demonstrate your woke credentials is by dismissing Scotland’s active role in facilitating Britain’s empire. We do better by acknowledging our mistakes and promising to do better, not disavowing. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Glasgow built its wealth on the backs of African slaves and you would accept this if you listened to their descendants. It’s utterly embarrassing that people think the best way to demonstrate your woke credentials is by dismissing Scotland’s active role in facilitating Britain’s empire. We do better by acknowledging our mistakes and promising to do better, not disavowing. Again though the slight problem with that is it's utter shite. Answer this. Could Scotland have prevented any of the actions of the British empire? Give me an answer to that. Nobody is denying places and people in Scotland made money those are totally separate, and Scotland has actually come to terms with it given studies show Scotland is the only part of the UK where the empire is seen as a bad thing. But answer the question, if Scotland as a nation decided you know what this colonialism thing is wrong, could we have prevented it? When you answer that you also tacitly answer the question does Scotland bear responsibility for it and I accept your apology in advance x 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said: Again though the slight problem with that is it's utter shite. Answer this. Could Scotland have prevented any of the actions of the British empire? Give me an answer to that. Nobody is denying places and people in Scotland made money those are totally separate, and Scotland has actually come to terms with it given studies show Scotland is the only part of the UK where the empire is seen as a bad thing. But answer the question, if Scotland as a nation decided you know what this colonialism thing is wrong, could we have prevented it? When you answer that you also tacitly answer the question does Scotland bear responsibility for it and I accept your apology in advance x We could have refused to participate in it, instead we made our participation a condition of joining the Union. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, welshbairn said: We could have refused to participate in it, instead we made our participation a condition of joining the Union. Could we yeah? Did we yeah? I can't even be bothered. You know you're talking mince. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Again though the slight problem with that is it's utter shite. Answer this. Could Scotland have prevented any of the actions of the British empire? Give me an answer to that. Nobody is denying places and people in Scotland made money those are totally separate, and Scotland has actually come to terms with it given studies show Scotland is the only part of the UK where the empire is seen as a bad thing. But answer the question, if Scotland as a nation decided you know what this colonialism thing is wrong, could we have prevented it? When you answer that you also tacitly answer the question does Scotland bear responsibility for it and I accept your apology in advance x Could the average Englishman have prevented empire? No he couldn’t. Yet we still acknowledge England’s devastating colonial impact. It’s really that simple. If Scotland hated the empire and the union so much then why was there little to no secession movements between 1745 and the 20th century even compared to say Ireland? We, as a country, embraced empire and the opportunities it afforded us and we have to take our share of the blame if we want to be a grown up progressive country. Simple as that. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Could we yeah? Did we yeah? I can't even be bothered. You know you're talking mince. Literally one of the conditions of the union was giving Scotland unfettered access to the empire’s markets. We did our fair share of colonisation. Writers such as Hroch acknowledge that the union was more stable because the minority nationalities weren’t barred from participating within the empire’s apparatus in the same way that the minority nations within Russia or Austria-Hungary for example. Or Spain prior to the latter stages of the Bourbon monarchy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Could the average Englishman have prevented empire? No he couldn’t. Yet we still acknowledge England’s devastating colonial impact. It’s really that simple. If Scotland hated the empire and the union so much then why was there little to no secession movements between 1745 and the 20th century even compared to say Ireland? We, as a country, embraced empire and the opportunities it afforded us and we have to take our share of the blame if we want to be a grown up progressive country. Simple as that. England could have stopped or prevented empire any time it wanted. Scotland could not. Those are the facts champ. Stick them in your pipe and smoke them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochas III Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Scotland benefited from the slave trade, you know who also did... the African Kingdoms - many of which fell into collapse as soon as Britain banned it in the Empire. People who like to talk about the Atlantic Slave trade like to forget the biggest players in it... The Kingdom of Portugal, Portuguese Brazil and the African Kingdoms. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Literally one of the conditions of the union was giving Scotland unfettered access to the empire’s markets. We did our fair share of colonisation. Writers such as Hroch acknowledge that the union was more stable because the minority nationalities weren’t barred from participating within the empire’s apparatus in the same way that the minority nations within Russia or Austria-Hungary for example. Or Spain prior to the latter stages of the Bourbon monarchy. You mean the union that like 100 people who were bribed voted to join? Good argument champ. You love a colony just as much as Boris Johnson. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 The minority nationalities were deeply involved in Austrian imperial government; countless Czech-speaking officials were responsible for the administration of Bosnia for example, and swamped state posts in the new Czechoslovak state that they returned to in 1918. Hroch is a credible analyst of nationalism but not imperialism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, virginton said: The minority nationalities were deeply involved in Austrian imperial government; countless Czech-speaking officials were responsible for the administration of Bosnia for example, and swamped state posts in the new Czechoslovak state that they returned to in 1918. Hroch is a credible analyst of nationalism but not imperialism. Fair enough. What's your thoughts on the debate then? I remember Tom Devine acknowledging the Scots enormous impact on the development of the British Empire. Edited March 31, 2018 by NotThePars 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Antiochas III said: Scotland benefited from the slave trade, you know who also did... the African Kingdoms - many of which fell into collapse as soon as Britain banned it in the Empire. People who like to talk about the Atlantic Slave trade like to forget the biggest players in it... The Kingdom of Portugal, Portuguese Brazil and the African Kingdoms. What's the legacy of colonialism for the African continent compared to Scotland? Are African states thriving in its aftermath? I also don't think seriously interested in the history of colonialism forget Portugal's track record. They were among the first there and the last to leave. 4 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said: You mean the union that like 100 people who were bribed voted to join? Good argument champ. You love a colony just as much as Boris Johnson. Well why didn't the Scots rise up in 1848 or any other point after 1745? Why were many Scots happy and willing to see the crushing of the Jacobite rebellions? The biggest issue for Scots in the aftermath of joining the union appeared to be based around religion, not their supposed oppression by the British state. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, NotThePars said: What's the legacy of colonialism for the African continent compared to Scotland? Are African states thriving in its aftermath? I also don't think seriously interested in the history of colonialism forget Portugal's track record. They were among the first there and the last to leave. Well why didn't the Scots rise up in 1848 or any other point after 1745? Why were many Scots happy and willing to see the crushing of the Jacobite rebellions? The biggest issue for Scots in the aftermath of joining the union appeared to be based around religion, not their supposed oppression by the British state. You love a colony 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 One for Kincardine below. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 #Referendum2019 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB 4.2 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Thought I'd chuck this shite in here. https://unionjackscotlandsc.co.uk/ Only £28 to join! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Thought I'd chuck this shite in here. https://unionjackscotlandsc.co.uk/ Only £28 to join! Did you sign up squire? Good way to meet cyclists I'd say 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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