When will indyref2 happen?

[Loondave1]

Thankfully trolls and the few hardcore, Labour- and Tory-tribal ideological UK nationalists aren’t representative of the wider public. These folk aren’t interested in debate, but in either getting attention (Christ knows why) or fighting Scottish sovereignty because they see the UK as their country and London as their capital.
There is no point in trying to convince them of anything positive (or potentially positive) about an independent Scotland. Nor is there any point in trying to persuade them than the UK is an archaic political union. They will not listen. The people who should be engaged with are the soft Nos - those who voted No last time but are open to criticism of the UK’s future and the positive possibilities of a Scotland politically independent of it.

Pep is a real winner when it comes to engaging with soft NOs i bet. Also if you think Nats are not at least equally "tribal" and "hardcore"...

[Peppino Impastato]

15 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Thankfully trolls and the few hardcore, Labour- and Tory-tribal ideological UK nationalists aren’t representative of the wider public. These folk aren’t interested in debate, but in either getting attention (Christ knows why) or fighting Scottish sovereignty because they see the UK as their country and London as their capital.

There is no point in trying to convince them of anything positive (or potentially positive) about an independent Scotland. Nor is there any point in trying to persuade them than the UK is an archaic political union. They will not listen. The people who should be engaged with are the soft Nos - those who voted No last time but are open to criticism of the UK’s future and the positive possibilities of a Scotland politically independent of it.

That's true, that's why the fortar troll is on block.  No point engaging these people.

[Loondave1]

That's true, that's why the fortar troll is on block.  No point engaging these people.

Your head is "blocked". The you're "blocked" patter is like some childish playground stuff. I couldn't care enough to block anyone,im open to listening to all even if it is guff.

[mjw]

50 something self confessed troll having a pop at childish playground stuff.

Outstanding.

[Loondave1]

50 something self confessed troll having a pop at childish playground stuff.

Outstanding.

I realise Pep gets a free pass with most of you.

[mjw]

I realise Pep gets a free pass with most of you.

Piss off
He gets called out regularly on here by yessers for his pish.
Same as his fuzzy Afro account did.

Can you guys say the same about Mcspreader/philyerboots Glen Minter etc..?

[Loondave1]

Piss off
He gets called out regularly on here by yessers for his pish.
Same as his fuzzy Afro account did.

Can you guys say the same about Mcspreader/philyerboots Glen Minter etc..?

"you guys" ? If I'm responsible for them you're responsible for Pep. I'm not though.

[mjw]

"you guys" ? If I'm responsible for them you're responsible for Pep. I'm not though.

You're not even responsible for yourself tbf.

[welshbairn]

I'd say Loondave1 and maybe Ayrexile (haven't seen too many of his posts) argue their perspectives pretty reasonably considering the amount of abuse they get. A bit of teasing/trolling in return is only to be expected. I wouldn't defend to the death their right to say it though, that would be silly.

[Ira Gaines]

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I'd say Loondave1 and maybe Ayrexile (haven't seen too many of his posts) argue their perspectives pretty reasonably considering the amount of abuse they get. A bit of teasing/trolling in return is only to be expected. I wouldn't defend to the death their right to say it though, that would be silly.

Well, Loondave gets all sorts of grief for being a troll because he repeatedly said that's what he does on here, either to make up for being an idiot or because he can't be taken seriously because he IS a troll.

AyrExile has much more reason to feel aggrieved than he does, and there's no way I'm putting those two together.

[Loondave1]

Well, Loondave gets all sorts of grief for being a troll because he repeatedly said that's what he does on here, either to make up for being an idiot or because he can't be taken seriously because he IS a troll.
AyrExile has much more reason to feel aggrieved than he does, and there's no way I'm putting those two together.

Nah.I might have mentioned once but i thought i got away with it. It's everbody else that says it repeatedly.

[PB 4.2]

Wee feeling that Yes might be up around 48% whenever the next poll drops.    

Fishermen look like being screwed, negative reporting of Brexit leaving and the single market.    Tory conference cancelled and SLab still a laughing stock.   

Hopefully, Nicola Sturgeon will keep mum,  and just all things to happen.  

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

I'd say Loondave1 and maybe Ayrexile (haven't seen too many of his posts) argue their perspectives pretty reasonably considering the amount of abuse they get. A bit of teasing/trolling in return is only to be expected. I wouldn't defend to the death their right to say it though, that would be silly.

Once someone has repeatedly announced themself to be trolling a forum for attention, anything else he or she says can be pretty safely discounted. Their turn’s by. There’s no point in trying to take it seriously, because it might well just be more of their bizarre, attention-seeking bullshit.

I’d as soon treat it as worthy of paying attention to as let Rose West run the maternity wing of a prison.

[welshbairn]

Just now, Antlion said:

Once someone has repeatedly announced themself to be trolling a forum for attention, anything else he or she says can be pretty safely discounted. Their turn’s by. There’s no point in trying to take it seriously, because it might well just be more of their bizarre, attention-seeking bullshit.

I’d as soon treat it as worthy of paying attention to as let Rose West run the maternity wing of a prison.

He makes serious points most of the time that should be considered and argued with. This isn't a junior football derby thread and he's not McSpreader or Heehaw. Political debate can be taken too seriously sometimes.

[Antlion]

49 minutes ago, PB 4.2 said:

Wee feeling that Yes might be up around 48% whenever the next poll drops.    

Fishermen look like being screwed, negative reporting of Brexit leaving and the single market.    Tory conference cancelled and SLab still a laughing stock.   

Hopefully, Nicola Sturgeon will keep mum,  and just all things to happen.  

I don’t envy Sturgeon her position. On the one hand, she can’t not  pursue Scottish independence. There is every reason to do so, from the nation’s vote, to  the shambles of Brexit and contempt for the Scotland Act, to the UK’s likely path for the future. Yet at the same time she has promised to wait for polls to indicate a shift in public opinion (which has happened, but in both directions, bizarrely).

Sturgeon could keep mum and hope the UK kills itself, but I’ve always thought the SNP and wider Yes movement need to be more aggressive in their message. The big flaw of the last Yes campaign was that it was largely reactive in the face of lies and dirty tricks (I haven’t forgotten that fat sack of cum Gordon Brown’s lies about children’s heart transplants being denied if Scotland voted Yes, which was only smacked down by Great Ormond Street hospital). The problem then is that a hard Yes message just encourages Colonel Cosplay and her No Surrender wings to dig out the costumes and flutes, which in turn galvanises the “we hate nationalism - let’s take back control to Westminster whilst decrying it” Corbyn worshippers.

[Antlion]

5 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

He makes serious points most of the time that should be considered and argued with. This isn't a junior football derby thread and he's not McSpreader or Heehaw. Political debate can be taken too seriously sometimes.

I’d very much dispute “most” of the time. He can play with the big kids when he learns to act like the big kids. Until then he’s a nonentity. As for arguing with him, I’m not sure I want to feed his craving for a stranger’s attention (even discussing him at any length probably feeds this creepy need); his attitude (whether genuine or simply engineered to wind people up) is fixed; and whenever I’ve attempted to engage him in the past, he resorts to the same, smug old “you’re helping No”, “it’ll never happen”, “UK 4eva” shite.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Antlion

[AyrExile]

7 hours ago, Antlion said:

No one gives a shit how you personally voted. The fact is, unionism in the UK means Brexit. Supporting one is supporting the other. Whether you’re “happy” or not, you’re still happy to let Scotland suffer it. You support Scotland “losing money” through Brexit, but not “losing money” through independence. As for being out of both unions, no one is seriously proposing that. 

Incidentally, if you’re trying not to appear to be a frothing Union Jack-licker, you’re doing a pretty poor job given the hackneyed “hive” patter. 

It’s called democracy my man and the 52-48 outcome suggests quite a mix of different people voted for it and not just diehard unionists. Considering a lot of the hardcore SNP voters want nothing to do with europe do they now count as unionists? Happy or not please explain how I could have helped Scotland avoid this outcome?  Had I voted yes in 2014 Scotland would have been pulled out of the Eu anyway. If  It wasn’t for Sturgeon using this as a lever to demand another vote the Eu would be low down the list of Scottish priorities.  

[Antlion]

36 minutes ago, AyrExile said:

It’s called democracy my man and the 52-48 outcome suggests quite a mix of different people voted for it and not just diehard unionists. Considering a lot of the hardcore SNP voters want nothing to do with europe do they now count as unionists? Happy or not please explain how I could have helped Scotland avoid this outcome?  Had I voted yes in 2014 Scotland would have been pulled out of the Eu anyway. If  It wasn’t for Sturgeon using this as a lever to demand another vote the Eu would be low down the list of Scottish priorities.  

No one is saying only diehard unionists voted for Brexit. I’m not sure where you plucked that from. My point is that, post the 2016 referendum, supporting Scotland’s continued membership of the UK means supporting Scotland leaving the EU. Brexit is not only UK policy, but the policy of every UK party. You became a Brexiteer, because you embrace the principle that in this pretendy partnership of nations, the one with the biggest population makes the decisions. Naturally, that’s fine to people who don’t actually see Scotland as a country in its own right, as it shouldn’t have any more right to make its own decisions in the international context than, say, Berkshire. Whilst you might not have voted for Brexit as an individual, Scotland didn’t vote for it as a nation. It’s happening anyway, and you seem to see it as a price worth paying to maintain Westminster rule.

If Scotland chooses to try to remain in, rejoin, or leave the EU at any point in the future, that would be up to its electorate. You prefer the electorate of the wider UK to make that decision, even over what I’m afraid you can’t disingenuously brush off as a minor issue. Not only is Brexit the biggest issue that has faced the UK in decades, but you also seem happy for the UK electorate to elect people to directly control Scotland’s foreign affairs, trade, budget, et al.  

Edited March 10, 2018 by Antlion

[NotThePars]

Well, Loondave gets all sorts of grief for being a troll because he repeatedly said that's what he does on here, either to make up for being an idiot or because he can't be taken seriously because he IS a troll.
AyrExile has much more reason to feel aggrieved than he does, and there's no way I'm putting those two together.

It’s so easy to tell when he’s being serious though. The guy practically signposts when he’s taking the piss. Admitting that sometimes you just post shit for banter should hardly exclude from the good points that you make. This isn’t Holyrood, it’s a football forum populated by depressed alcoholic diddy team supporters.

[Antlion]

1 minute ago, NotThePars said:

 

It’s so easy to tell when he’s being serious though. The guy practically signposts when he’s taking the piss. Admitting that sometimes you just post shit for banter should hardly exclude from the good points that you make. This isn’t Holyrood, it’s a football forum populated by depressed alcoholic diddy team supporters.

 

I could forgive the trolling if it was funny, or original. It is, let’s face it, a bit shite and sad though. Surely there used to be amusing trolls on the forum - the proper mental nut jobs who genuinely had you rubbing your eyes in disbelief.  The only ones that seem to post seem to be cut from the same UK Nationalist cookie cutter, spouting the same “Natz”, “nippy” shite.