When will indyref2 happen?

[git-intae-thum]

12 minutes ago, bob the tank said:

 

That is complete nonsense, go and read some history before spouting this drivel

 

This is what we are up against.

So so many are totally bullshitized by the whole Dailmailesque et al distortion of our peoples history.

Sad.

[sureiknow]

2 hours ago, bob the tank said:

 

That is complete nonsense, go and read some history before spouting this drivel

 

Try Google.  It works. 

[git-intae-thum]

24 minutes ago, sureiknow said:

Try Google.  It works. 

Try reading....works better

Patterson and the bank of England....bankrupt nobles......parcel o rogues....mass protest among the people

Those who actually do a bit of reading quickly discover the truth of union. It ain't pretty.

A few hundred shifty f#ckers selling out the rest. Thats about the truth of it.

[1320Lichtie]

Fair play to all the yes boys that continuously reply to Unionist pish over and over and over by the way. Respect.

I gave up ages ago.

Some people genuinely depress me with the stuff they come out with. One part of Indy Ref 2 I’m not looking forward to.

[mjw]

Fuzzy still sticking anyone who disagrees with him on ignore then?
It's a real meeting of the minds when him and rob start their flirting.

[renton]

6 hours ago, sureiknow said:

Try Google.  It works. 

I assume you'll be able to fit the war of Spanish succession, the ongoing instability of the Scottish-English dynastic union and it's impending succession and the English economic blockade of domestic and colonial markets through the Aliens and Navigations acts as a response to the Scottish Act of Security, into it's proper historical context. Being that you've used Google and all.

[Baxter Parp]

11 hours ago, sureiknow said:

Scotland joined the UK as it was virtually bankrupt.

The people then as now  seen/ see it as being in their best intrests. 

Not this shite again.

[John Lambies Doos]

And your point had no relevance to mine either, mate. I’m all in on Scotland going independent. I just think it’s dumb and offensive to consider Scotland a colony considering a) the abhorrent history of colonisation and b) our own particularly grim history of colonisation.

Fair enough; but my point wasn't about the colony thing; it was merely stating that many small independent sovereign nations are flourishing in the EU. I firmly believe in Scottish independence and think this sits within an outworking looking EU.

[NotThePars]

Fair enough; but my point wasn't about the colony thing; it was merely stating that many small independent sovereign nations are flourishing in the EU. I firmly believe in Scottish independence and think this sits within an outworking looking EU.

I agree and it’s why I’ll vote for independence again. I just don’t think it’s productive at all to try and invent an oppression that patently doesn’t exist.

[1320Lichtie]

I agree and it’s why I’ll vote for independence again. I just don’t think it’s productive at all to try and invent an oppression that patently doesn’t exist.

Whilst I don’t entirely agree either I can see his reasoning. Don’t think it’s that wild a viewpoint.

[bob the tank]

I agree and it’s why I’ll vote for independence again. I just don’t think it’s productive at all to try and invent an oppression that patently doesn’t exist.

I would consider lack of democracy, being lied to, not invested in, being told your country is shite every day by the British media and basically being blanked, as if Scots and Scotland don't exist is quite oppressive

[Jmothecat2]

I think if you want Scotland to become independent you are better not to persist down the 'Scotland has been colonised' route as it doesn't reflect well on the movement, it makes you sound like conspiracy theorists and dilutes the reasonable and legitimate arguments for independence. This is probably a good time to attempt to win over disillusioned left of centre people, who are pissed off about Brexit, the clusterfuck of a Westminster government and the absolute mess of a Labour opposition. Dial down the chip on the shoulder and claims that we aren't a democracy and focus on arguments that might convince people who voted No last time but are angry with the current UK government.

[git-intae-thum]

1 hour ago, Jmothecat2 said:

I think if you want Scotland to become independent you are better not to persist down the 'Scotland has been colonised' route as it doesn't reflect well on the movement, it makes you sound like conspiracy theorists and dilutes the reasonable and legitimate arguments for independence. This is probably a good time to attempt to win over disillusioned left of centre people, who are pissed off about Brexit, the clusterfuck of a Westminster government and the absolute mess of a Labour opposition. Dial down the chip on the shoulder and claims that we aren't a democracy and focus on arguments that might convince people who voted No last time but are angry with the current UK government.

Really.....would that convince you?

[Peppino Impastato]

20 hours ago, RedRob72 said:

A land colonised by people of another nation, it’s not really is it Pep?
‘Controlled entirely by another’ also suggests under duress, again it’s not really is it, especially given that 55% of the electorate voted in favour of retaining our current membership of the Union?
You’re in an angry minority Pep, who yearn to live and breathe the oppression of Imperial aggression. You’re about 150 years too late Pal.

Scotland is clearly a territory controlled entirely by another territory.  That makes it a colony champ.  Our parliament just voted for a referendum which is being denied by a party we rejected categorically at the ballot box and have done constantly since 1950 yet who have governed us two thirds of the time since.  We are a colony.  And you are utterly craven.

[NotThePars]

Whilst I don’t entirely agree either I can see his reasoning. Don’t think it’s that wild a viewpoint.

It’s tone deaf reasoning that seeks to erase Scotland’s very active role in the dirty work of the empire. An independence movement that we can be proud of would make it clear that we aren’t disavowing our own abhorrent colonial past and instead seek to redress those wrongs and play an active and positive role on the world stage in a similar vein to our commendable rhetoric on housing and giving asylum to refugees, and allowing Northern Irish women to seek abortions on our NHS.

That’s better than bob the tank’s idea of a movement equating a democratic deficit and the occasional nonsense spouted by the media to actual colonisation efforts around the world.

[1320Lichtie]

It’s tone deaf reasoning that seeks to erase Scotland’s very active role in the dirty work of the empire. An independence movement that we can be proud of would make it clear that we aren’t disavowing our own abhorrent colonial past and instead seek to redress those wrongs and play an active and positive role on the world stage in a similar vein to our commendable rhetoric on housing and giving asylum to refugees, and allowing Northern Irish women to seek abortions on our NHS.

That’s better than bob the tank’s idea of a movement equating a democratic deficit and the occasional nonsense spouted by the media to actual colonisation efforts around the world.

I don’t think that’s what anyone is trying to say though. Nobody from what I can see is trying to erase any history.

Just looking at the current situation in the here and now and looking at just how odd it is for me.

[Peppino Impastato]

20 hours ago, NotThePars said:

I'm fairly sure the people of London would have to get parliamentary permission to seek an independence referendum. Or do the London MPs or the Assembly have some hidden clause that I've missed? Bold calling others craven though, I didn't realise your commitment to independence was risking your life and limb. 

Typical britnat compare Scotland to a region of England when challenged.  Read the claim of right.  Scotland's parliament has.voted.for a referendum.  That is being denied by another territory who controls us.  We are a colony.

[NotThePars]

Typical britnat compare Scotland to a region of England when challenged.  Read the claim of right.  Scotland's parliament has.voted.for a referendum.  That is being denied by another territory who controls us.  We are a colony.

This “Phil Greaves of the Scottish nationalist movement” thing you’re doing is a belter, mate. Keep it up.

[Jmothecat2]

Really.....would that convince you?

Probably not but I'm closer to supporting independence than I ever have been before, thanks to a complete disillusionment with Westminster politics and I'm still pissed off about Brexit. I'm probably closer politically to the SNP (aside from the nationalism aspect) now than I am the current leadership of the Labour Party and as the influence of Momentum increases my reasons for remaining a Labour member increasingly diminish. The direction of the government worries me and the lack of effective opposition puts me in a position where I'm increasingly sympathetic to the notion of a radical solution like independence. There are a few significant stumbling blocks, I remain unconvinced by the economic arguments for example, and the overt nationalism of the movement is something I don't feel comfortable with. I was a firm no, and now I'm a soft no. Reading things like 'Scotland is a colony' frightens me right off though. The challenge is getting people who are pissed off about genuine things and situations that are actually happening, rather than creating fictional new ones which harm the legitimacy of the wider movement. We are a democratic country with the ability to determine our own future so creating a grievance over that doesn't reflect well. Focus on the 'democratic deficit' by all means, focus on being pissed off that Scotland voted to remain yet the UK is being pulled out of the EU. Voters in Scotland have a lot to be pissed off about right now. Of Yes/No and Remain/Leave voters the group who voted no and remain are probably the largest. That's a big group of people to target, who have something about the UK they aren't happy with that wasn't there during the Indy Ref. The best way of convincing that group isn't by talking about conspiracy theories, or dismissing them as people who 'fell for unionist lies' (nobody wants to feel like they were duped, no matter how strongly you may believe they were), but by focusing on what has changed since 2014 and how and why that makes independence a better prospect than it was when they voted no.

[mizfit]

Personally speaking I’m just incredibly pissed off with the way The UK View and treat us.

13 Tory MP’s went down there, vowing to fight for Scotland.

They’ve ignored Scotland completely, consistently attack the SNP (over Westminster reserve matters) and they’re probably putting in fraud expenses whilst they have a chance.