NotThePars Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Thats fine then, we got a good deal in 1707. Great result really. Ffs That is definitely what I said. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 1 hour ago, NotThePars said: That is definitely what I said. Agree that 1707 isn't in most of our minds when deciding for self-determination but a 'good deal'? Scotland wasn't in a good place then but much of that blame lies with England who were waging war on all their neighbours. Until 1707 we had good relations and trading links with most European nations. After the Act of Union, we were at war with them because England was. As to nations' wealth, most countries had appalling widespread poverty until fairly recently. The 'wealth' that 'we' got from the Empire with which to build the likes of Glasgow's Merchant City with didn't trickle down to most. Other nations like Norway were similarly poor until recent decades. Their independence and more egalitarian approach has all but wiped out the kind of poverty we still see here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Crùbag said: Agree that 1707 isn't in most of our minds when deciding for self-determination but a 'good deal'? Scotland wasn't in a good place then but much of that blame lies with England who were waging war on all their neighbours. Until 1707 we had good relations and trading links with most European nations. After the Act of Union, we were at war with them because England was. As to nations' wealth, most countries had appalling widespread poverty until fairly recently. The 'wealth' that 'we' got from the Empire with which to build the likes of Glasgow's Merchant City with didn't trickle down to most. Other nations like Norway were similarly poor until recent decades. Their independence and more egalitarian approach has all but wiped out the kind of poverty we still see here. The union of the Crowns had already placed long term unification of the British Isles in motion and aye of course the English had largely saw to it that Scotland couldn't have functioned on as an independent nation hence why the Scots in that period were looking at unions not only with England but France and the United Provinces. We had good relations and trading links but we were increasingly having to face up to the reality of economic protectionism which was shutting the Scots out of the markets and pushing Scottish traders into smuggling before 1707 which I think Devine talks about. On the actual terms of the Act of Union, Scotland could've easily been subsumed within England and ceased to exist as any form of separate entity but as it stood Scotland continued to exist with its own legal system and religion that was largely free of interference and the 18th century at least showed a large measure of administrative independence which was better than a lot of polities in Europe at the time. I don't think your bit about Norway necessarily contradicts what I'm saying? It's not the fault of a 1707 parliament if the post-45 government in Westminster failed to effectively utilise the oil boom that we had in Scotland, those in 1707 could hardly look 270 years in the future and foresee Scotland discovering oil and I think that's reflected somewhat to the lack of any substantial independence movement before the 1970s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 https://wingsoverscotland.com/anybodys-game/ It's anybody's game 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Nothing much has changed. Huge swathes of those over 35 still want to remain in the UK and a clear majority of women want to remain as well. Until those two categories show a significant shift in favour of independence it is hard to imagine another referendum any time soon. A sensible post from Oaksoft. Must be Christmas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Interesting. Scotland in Onion is falling apart. Someone is sending details of all their aristocracy backers, one lot are wanting to fight and the others want to build Empire 2.0. Quote Scotland In Union appears to be breaking into unhappy fragments. It’s already seen an “intellectual” faction splinter off in the form of These Islands – who were swiftly caught up in a racism row over academic Nigel Biggar‘s views on the British Empire – and now they’ve got a somewhat, um, earthier offshoot in the form of UUK, ranting on Twitter about World War 2 and “the toff-elite” and offering Yes supporters out.(“Data Dump”, whoever they may be, claimed to us that the Scottish Conservatives also hate Scotland In Union for “stealing their donations and their thunder”, and that Ruth Davidson “despises” SiU director Alistair Cameron. It’s certainly notable that they seem to have closer links to more Labour and Lib Dem politicians than Tory ones, with Adam Tomkins the only elected Tory we know of to have been seen in public with Cameron or SiU, compared to the Lib/Lab likes of Willie Rennie, Alistair Darling, Anas Sarwar, Robert Brown, Jackie Baillie, Pearson and Nash.) https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-tools-of-the-union/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Seen this comment from a senior SNP MP and thought of this thread.Admirable but unusual bit of reality there, hats off to her, she’s spot on. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 On 24 December 2017 at 09:43, John Lambies Doos said: A sensible post from Oaksoft. Must be Christmas Oh I wish it could be Christmas every day... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 10 hours ago, Lex said: Seen this comment from a senior SNP MP and thought of this thread. Admirable but unusual bit of reality there, hats off to her, she’s spot on. As ever, a dishonest headline and words twisted to suit the Union. She actually said that the average Scot couldn't give two hoots about being in Union with Britain. Bit different, I'm sure you'll agree. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Lex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 http://thenational.scot/news/15805652.Fury_as_new_Royal_Navy_flagship_is_sold_to_Brazil_amid_Rosyth_job_crisis/ Fury as HMS Ocean is sold to Brazil amid Rosyth job crisis Better together. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 32 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: http://thenational.scot/news/15805652.Fury_as_new_Royal_Navy_flagship_is_sold_to_Brazil_amid_Rosyth_job_crisis/ Fury as HMS Ocean is sold to Brazil amid Rosyth job crisis Better together. What does the sale of Ocean have to do with the Rosyth job crisis? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 24 minutes ago, renton said: What does the sale of Ocean have to do with the Rosyth job crisis? Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could read the article and find out? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could read the article and find out? I have, the actual story seems to be that the next set of refit contracts for the T-45 Destroyers is up, and there is competition between Davenport and Rosyth for the work. That doesn't seem to have any real bearing on the sale of Ocean, which seems to have been chucked in to the story because of it's wider controversy (Given it was built on the cheap, Ocean was always going to be on the way out by now). Ship building is in massive trouble up here, and unless the current yard owners can diversify their customer base beyond the MoD, either in terms of of other world governments or indeed into commercial work and not military work, then long run seems to be a fairly awful place for the shipbuilders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, renton said: I have, the actual story seems to be that the next set of refit contracts for the T-45 Destroyers is up, and there is competition between Davenport and Rosyth for the work. That doesn't seem to have any real bearing on the sale of Ocean, which seems to have been chucked in to the story because of it's wider controversy (Given it was built on the cheap, Ocean was always going to be on the way out by now). Ship building is in massive trouble up here, and unless the current yard owners can diversify their customer base beyond the MoD, either in terms of of other world governments or indeed into commercial work and not military work, then long run seems to be a fairly awful place for the shipbuilders. Sounds familiar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 As ever, a dishonest headline and words twisted to suit the Union. She actually said that the average Scot couldn't give two hoots about being in Union with Britain. Bit different, I'm sure you'll agree. Off you pop Lex 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 It would be a moral good if we could diversify our shipbuilding beyond military works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Where's Philyerboots?No post criticising the state of the NHS in England? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philyerboots Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 13 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Where's Philyerboots? No post criticising the state of the NHS in England? why single England oot ? SCOTS NHS FACING "WINTER MELTDOWN" AS OPERATIONS CANCELLED (Seems as if our NHS isn't better than England after all. Hunt has apo...logised, wonder when Nippy will do likewise? Ed.) Scotland's NHS is facing claims of a "winter meltdown" after some hospitals were forced to cancel operations due to soaring pressure on A&E departments. NHS Lanarkshire has also redeployed office staff to cleaning duties after its three hospital sites at Hairmyres, Wishaw and Monklands were "inundated" over the festive period. Elective or non-urgent procedures have now been postponed at the hospitals for the rest of the week due to the increased pressure on services. NHS Dumfries and Galloway also confirmed that some outpatient clinics were suspended on Wednesday and non-urgent elective surgeries postponed for the day. It came as official NHS statistics revealed that hundreds of patients had been left waiting more than eight hours to be seen in A&E departments over the past week, while more than 600 operations were cancelled by hospitals over a lack of capacity. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, philyerboots said: why single England oot ? SCOTS NHS FACING "WINTER MELTDOWN" AS OPERATIONS CANCELLED (Seems as if our NHS isn't better than England after all. Hunt has apo...logised, wonder when Nippy will do likewise? Ed.) Scotland's NHS is facing claims of a "winter meltdown" after some hospitals were forced to cancel operations due to soaring pressure on A&E departments. NHS Lanarkshire has also redeployed office staff to cleaning duties after its three hospital sites at Hairmyres, Wishaw and Monklands were "inundated" over the festive period. Elective or non-urgent procedures have now been postponed at the hospitals for the rest of the week due to the increased pressure on services. NHS Dumfries and Galloway also confirmed that some outpatient clinics were suspended on Wednesday and non-urgent elective surgeries postponed for the day. It came as official NHS statistics revealed that hundreds of patients had been left waiting more than eight hours to be seen in A&E departments over the past week, while more than 600 operations were cancelled by hospitals over a lack of capacity. Are you having a laugh or are you shite at basic numeracy? Ours is to minor thaw as there's is to meltdown. Edited January 5, 2018 by ayrmad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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