AUFC90 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Ecuador, East Timor, El Salvador, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Palau, Turks and Caicos, British Virgin Islands, Zimbabwe,Andorra, Kosovo, Monaco, Montenegro, San Marino, Vatican City. Thats ignoring countries in a currency union or countries who have their own currency but have it pegged to a foreign currency. A veritable whose who of aspirational small countries if ever there was one. A straight choice between corrupt tax haven or struggling shitehole. Why ignore them ? They are more than relevenat. Canada, and just about all of Europe. Christ Denmarks been tagged to the Euro for years. Plenty of wealthy countries around the world have been tagged to the dollar at one point or another. None of Europe has full control of their currency and almost all of them are better places to live than the UK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, AUFC90 said: Why ignore them ? They are more than relevenat. Canada, and just about all of Europe. Christ Denmarks been tagged to the Euro for years. Plenty of wealthy countries around the world have been tagged to the dollar at one point or another. None of Europe has full control of their currency and almost all of them are better places to live than the UK. Because that's not what the fantasy report that Sturgeon seems so keen on pushing suggests as being a credible option for the foreseeable future. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Because that's not what the fantasy report that Sturgeon seems so keen on pushing suggests as being a credible option for the foreseeable future. From what ive heard its using the pound until we can start our own. Just like about every other country that goes it alone. Using the pound, starting our own, joining the Euro are all credible whether you like it or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Because that's not what the fantasy report that Sturgeon seems so keen on pushing suggests as being a credible option for the foreseeable future. You can carry on arguing that having England control our currency whilst also controlling our economy is better than then controling our currency whilst we control our economy all you like but im not buying. The UK is fucked with little to no manufacturing base, a huge balance of trade deficit, low wages and very little flow of foreign labour to do all the shite jobs and thats before a deal with the EU. For every question ragarding Scotlands economy after a yes there's at least 2 or 3 regarding the UKs right now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 17 minutes ago, AUFC90 said: You can carry on arguing that having England control our currency whilst also controlling our economy is better than then controling our currency whilst we control our economy all you like but im not buying. The UK is fucked with little to no manufacturing base, a huge balance of trade deficit, low wages and very little flow of foreign labour to do all the shite jobs and thats before a deal with the EU. For every question ragarding Scotlands economy after a yes there's at least 2 or 3 regarding the UKs right now. Little flow of foreign labour? Feb 2018 Scottish unemployment: 4.5% UK unemployment: 4.4% Fancy trying that one again? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Little flow of foreign labour? Feb 2018 Scottish unemployment: 4.5% UK unemployment: 4.4% Fancy trying that one again? The NHS and the food production industry must just be talking out their arse then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, AUFC90 said: 14 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said: Little flow of foreign labour? Feb 2018 Scottish unemployment: 4.5% UK unemployment: 4.4% Fancy trying that one again? The NHS and the food production industry must just be talking out their arse then. Pretty much. 4.5% unemployment, even accepting the slightly poorer position in Scotland compared to the UK as a whole, is very low. It compares favourably with other G20 nations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Pretty much. 4.5% unemployment, even accepting the slightly poorer position in Scotland compared to the UK as a whole, is very low. It compares favourably with other G20 nations. Well the current and very fabulous government of the day is pursuing immigration policies that will hurt out economy to appeal to racists. Thats an economic question for the UK government TODAY. Funnily enough reducing immigration hurst Scotlands economy the most and there's f**k all we can do about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, AUFC90 said: 9 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said: Pretty much. 4.5% unemployment, even accepting the slightly poorer position in Scotland compared to the UK as a whole, is very low. It compares favourably with other G20 nations. Well the current and very fabulous government of the day is pursuing immigration policies that will hurt out economy to appeal to racists. Thats an economic question for the UK government TODAY. Funnily enough reducing immigration hurst Scotlands economy the most and there's f**k all we can do about it. It really doesnt. Proportionally Scotland has lower immigration than England. The difference is in birth rates. We've not yet reached the tipping point where Scotland will be reliant on immigration to maintain an effective labour market due to the relatively low birth rate in Scotland. It's projected to be the case within around 25 years. So whilst it's an issue for significantly further down the line, right now it's clutching at straws. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 It really doesnt. Proportionally Scotland has lower immigration than England. The difference is in birth rates. We've not yet reached the tipping point where Scotland will be reliant on immigration to maintain an effective labour market due to the relatively low birth rate in Scotland. It's projected to be the case within around 25 years. So whilst it's an issue for significantly further down the line, right now it's clutching at straws. It really isn't. We have and ageing population and a low birth rate now. You don't wait till the tipping point if your government has any sense whatsoever. At least the Scottish parliament recognises the importance of immigration to our present and future prosperity. Westminster ? Not so much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, AUFC90 said: It really isn't. We have and ageing population and a low birth rate now. You don't wait till the tipping point if your government has any sense whatsoever. At least the Scottish parliament recognises the importance of immigration to our present and future prosperity. Westminster ? Not so much. Your point was that Scotland is more reliant on immigration to maintain a labour market now. A point that wasn't true. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Your point was that Scotland is more reliant on immigration to maintain a labour market now. A point that wasn't true. My point is we are more reliant on immigration for our economy and the ability to pay our pensions than the the rest of the UK. Public services cost more to run in Scotland than any of the rest due to the size and remoteness of this country. This is paid for by taxes. More people living longer and not enough coming through the other end is a disaster for a country like Scotland. At least the Scottish Government know this. Westminster couldn't give a shit. Instead of banging on about currency maybe you should list all the benefits to Scotland of the UKs financial and social policies over the last 10 years and the outlook for us being tied to this sinking ship for the next 20? It's not 2014. No matter how hard you guys try to mask it...the fact is there is no security or certainty staying within the UK anymore. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, AUFC90 said: My point is we are more reliant on immigration for our economy and the ability to pay our pensions than the the rest of the UK. Public services cost more to run in Scotland than any of the rest due to the size and remoteness of this country. This is paid for by taxes. More people living longer and not enough coming through the other end is a disaster for a country like Scotland. At least the Scottish Government know this. Westminster couldn't give a shit. Instead of banging on about currency maybe you should list all the benefits to Scotland of the UKs financial and social policies over the last 10 years and the outlook for us being tied to this sinking ship for the next 20? It's not 2014. No matter how hard you guys try to mask it...the fact is there is no security or certainty staying within the UK anymore. Why? I'm not the one arguing for change. It isn't 2014. Trotting out the same discredited economic policies, or worse trying to paint the latest paper as a game changer, isnt going to change anybody's voting intentions. Hell, you even have indy cheerleaders like Jim Sillars criticising it and the SSP threatening to oppose the SNP if they adopt the paper's vision of Osborne-esqe austerity. The independence argument lost. It needs to encourage enough no voters to change their vote if it's ever going to win another referendum. It doesnt do that by rehashing old, discredited arguments that the electorate have already rejected and introducing reworked ones that are even worse than the last time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Why? I'm not the one arguing for change. It isn't 2014. Trotting out the same discredited economic policies, or worse trying to paint the latest paper as a game changer, isnt going to change anybody's voting intentions. Hell, you even have indy cheerleaders like Jim Sillars criticising it and the SSP threatening to oppose the SNP if they adopt the paper's vision of Osborne-esqe austerity. The independence argument lost. It needs to encourage enough no voters to change their vote if it's ever going to win another referendum. It doesnt do that by rehashing old, discredited arguments that the electorate have already rejected and introducing reworked ones that are even worse than the last time. I'm not rehashing anything. My reasons for voting yes have very little to do with economics even though Scotland is a wealthy country. Its purely down to the fact that a country governing itself cannot possible do a worse job than out of touch Oxbridge graduates 400 miles away. Its common sense as far as im concerned. The UK dsicovered the largest oil and gas deposits in Europe 50 years ago and are now one of the most debt laden countries in the world. Norway discovered the same amount at the same time and is now the richest country in the world with shares in almost every large company on the planet. Thats the difference when you're government is acting in your best interests. If there's a referendum again it won't just be yes having to argue for independence. No will have to explain why being in the UK is better based on what we know now versus the last one, on the back of promises broken and a messy Brexit. I and every other yes voter will happily argue the case for an independent Scotland. Can no voters really argue the case for a wonderful Tory led UK ? The UK is fucked for the forseeable future, pandering to racists and being led by inhuman arseholes like Johnson and May. I would be quite happy to get rid of the lot of them. They are a bunch of useless cretins. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, AUFC90 said: I'm not rehashing anything. My reasons for voting yes have very little to do with economics even though Scotland is a wealthy country. Its purely down to the fact that a country governing itself cannot possible do a worse job than out of touch Oxbridge graduates 400 miles away. Its common sense as far as im concerned. The UK dsicovered the largest oil and gas deposits in Europe 50 years ago and are now one of the most debt laden countries in the world. Norway discovered the same amount at the same time and is now the richest country in the world with shares in almost every large company on the planet. Thats the difference when you're government is acting in your best interests. If there's a referendum again it won't just be yes having to argue for independence. No will have to explain why being in the UK is better based on what we know now versus the last one, on the back of promises broken and a messy Brexit. I and every other yes voter will happily argue the case for an independent Scotland. Can no voters really argue the case for a wonderful Tory led UK ? The UK is fucked for the forseeable future, pandering to racists and being led by inhuman arseholes like Johnson and May. I would be quite happy to get rid of the lot of them. They are a bunch of useless cretins. When your side's own preferred paper indicates that it would be up to 25 years for an independent Scottish economy to fully recover to pre-indy levels? You're making the case for another no vote for anybody who isnt going to vote for the romantic rather than economic argument for/against independence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 When your side's own preferred paper indicates that it would be up to 25 years for an independent Scottish economy to fully recover to pre-indy levels? You're making the case for another no vote for anybody who isnt going to vote for the romantic rather than economic argument for/against independence. It's a growth commission mate. Literally no one knows what it will be like after, even yes voters. Same as no one knows what Brexit looks like. Im pretty certain that over the next 50 years that Scottish people making all the decisions themselves is infinitely better a government that doesnt care about anything north of Leicester. Thats common sense not romanticism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 hours ago, AUFC90 said: All that to not answer a single question. Because the amounts are irrelevant. What is important is the ability to refinance at cheap rates (preferably zero). The growth commission plan means an independent Scotland couldn't do that and would tie the hands of any elected government to change course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Can't believe some on here still shiting themselves on economic arguements. It really is simple, Scotland would be far better off if it controlled its own destiny 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 20 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: It really is simple, Scotland would be far better off if it controlled its own destiny Under the arrangements of the GC we wouldn't be in control of our own destiny though. We would be in thrall to the BoE and the bond markets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob the tank Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Under the arrangements of the GC we wouldn't be in control of our own destiny though. We would be in thrall to the BoE and the bond markets. It's a discussion document, not tablets of stone. Calm down H_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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