When will indyref2 happen?

[renton]

24 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

 

I comment on an a poll that suggests the appetite for independence is withering, which equates with racism and xenophobia!? Jeez, only in the mind of a myopic nationalist. You need to get out more pal, or at least take a swatch in the mirror occasionally. The SNP is riddled with accusations of the above. I never see it being discussed within these pages though. Strange that!
Scotland’s nationhood sits fine within the Union, the most recent poll seems to endorse that view.

 

Actually it shows that support for independence based on that pollster and that methodology is unchanged from 8 months previously, when it last asked the question. Depending on how the data is collated, we see a range of support from 43 to 48% in other words the same predictable place it's been, largely, for 4 years now. Indeed the only real outliers were a couple of polls around the time of the Brexit vote that showed Indy above 50%

[bob the tank]

Actually it shows that support for independence based on that pollster and that methodology is unchanged from 8 months previously, when it last asked the question. Depending on how the data is collated, we see a range of support from 43 to 48% in other words the same predictable place it's been, largely, for 4 years now. Indeed the only real outliers were a couple of polls around the time of the Brexit vote that showed Indy above 50%

I have my doubts about ever poll I see now. I signed up for yougov a while ago and I was asked political questions quite regularly until a Scottish based poll came up a couple of months ago. After I said I voted snp and would at every election in the future I have stopped being asked any questions about politics at all. In case anyone doesn't know yougov is owned by that despicable tory minister that Nazir(sp) guy.

[Colkitto]

Was having a look at the Twitter spat on Pete Wishart's comments on possibly delaying indyref2 till we know we can win it. 

What gets me is we have a veteran SNP MP saying we may not be ready for indyref2 within this parly term.  If we are going to dismiss the mandate to hold one so easily, should we not at least start campaigning for independence? At least see if we can move the polls and be more confident of winning? 

The last PPB by the SNP was good, a talking point because of the Torrrance thing and seen by thousands. One thing was missing from it - the word "independence"  It doesn't mention it at all.

So we have an SNP government that's not actively campaigning for independence, but has a mandate to do so. A long standing SNP MP who wants the polls to move before having one although nobody is actively campaigning for one.    A First Minister who is totally focused on the "day job" and doesn't much mention it at all these days.

 

 

[welshbairn]

22 minutes ago, bob the tank said:

 

I have my doubts about ever poll I see now. I signed up for yougov a while ago and I was asked political questions quite regularly until a Scottish based poll came up a couple of months ago. After I said I voted snp and would at every election in the future I have stopped being asked any questions about politics at all. In case anyone doesn't know yougov is owned by that despicable tory minister that Nazir(sp) guy.

 

I stopped doing it when the questions got more and more personal and psychological. Wasn't surprised at all when the Facebook/Cambridge Analytica stuff came out, I bet YouGov are doing similar or flogging on the data.

 

[PB 4.2]

Worth remembering the SNP and Yes Scotland wanted a union with rUK and the rest of the EU.   The idea that they're separatists or Anglophobic  doesn't hold any water.    What we want is to upgrade the status of Scotland to a normal country.    Others enjoy seeing Scotland suppressed and support Rangers. 

[Antlion]

2 hours ago, RedRob72 said:

 

I comment on an a poll that suggests the appetite for independence is withering, which equates with racism and xenophobia!? Jeez, only in the mind of a myopic nationalist. You need to get out more pal, or at least take a swatch in the mirror occasionally. The SNP is riddled with accusations of the above. I never see it being discussed within these pages though. Strange that!
Scotland’s nationhood sits fine within the Union, the most recent poll seems to endorse that view.

 

As it’s been repeatedly pointed out to you, only support for regionhood has withered over the past decade. It shows no signs of blooming back to life. Where is your evidence that support for being a nation state instead of a minor part of one is “withering”? Last time you disappeared when asked to prove this assertion. The most recent poll indicates that support for regionhood remains lower than it has been in living memory. Before the SNP’s tenure, only c55% opposition to Scottish sovereignty would have been unthinkable. Now it’s the new normal, and the once unquestioned proponents of an Anglocentric union seem to happily accept that it’s good enough, as long as it’s over 50%. That’s pretty complacent.

You are the most myopic of nationalists, Rob. You have never questioned the archaic “union”, and you are far too brainwashed to ever even accept doing so. You are a useful sheep to your superiors: a serf, an Uncle Tam, a willing dolt who can be relied on to support any party that caters to your dim-witted obsession with the Union Jack. If I were the wee chunky fake Colonel, I’d be laughing my tits off at just how easy it is to get the likes of you slavering, clapping, and washing out the mouthpiece of your flute.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Antlion

[btb]

17 hours ago, RedRob72 said:

So it’s still NO Gents, if the SNP can’t make a case for Independence in the current climate at Westminster they never will. Bring on the 2nd Ref now, and let’s put this divisive nonsense to bed forever. The SNP couldn’t run a pub raffle, never mind the future interests and prosperity of Scotland. Their desperate, separatist, tokenist, politicking means f*ck all to most of us. The start of the end is upon Nippy and her sad band of deluded followers. They will turn on her shortly too!

 

I'm on the other side with regards to Independence but that's what worries me - if we haven't got a clear lead on Independence against May's Tories (the most shambolic govt. I can remember even more so than Major's.) & Corbyn's Labour Party with most of the PLP against him and still unclear on its policy on the major (sic) issue of the day, Brexit, when will we?

[1320Lichtie]

I'm on the other side with regards to Independence but that's what worries me - if we haven't got a clear lead on Independence against May's Tories (the most shambolic govt. I can remember even more so than Major's.) & Corbyn's Labour Party with most of the PLP against him and still unclear on its policy on the major (sic) issue of the day, Brexit, when will we?

The idea of independence being an actual reality is relatively fresh, people have lived their whole lives in the system the way it is at the moment.

2014 has made the political outlook here so different, independence is still being talked about daily, every matter manages to find its way back to the subject. The UK as it is just now will continue to be under major scrutiny from people from now until forever, I’d imagine (unless things really change for scotland) each wee blow we take over the years will lead to it happening at some stage. I find it inevitable personally now the question has been asked.

Of course you’ll still have guys like Rob, but they’re a dying breed in a modern day Scotland.

[renton]

9 minutes ago, btb said:

I'm on the other side with regards to Independence but that's what worries me - if we haven't got a clear lead on Independence against May's Tories (the most shambolic govt. I can remember even more so than Major's.) & Corbyn's Labour Party with most of the PLP against him and still unclear on its policy on the major (sic) issue of the day, Brexit, when will we?

When we start campaigning for it. If the last 4 years have shown anything it's the stability of the polls in the face of both positive and negative stimulus. While the constitutional question colours everyday politics it does so in a way that doesn't trigger a reaction towards the question itself. Only until there is overt and obvious campaigning on the issue will you see public engagement enough to begin to shift opinion.

[RedRob72]

As it’s been repeatedly pointed out to you, only support for regionhood has withered over the past decade. It shows no signs of blooming back to life. Where is your evidence that support for being a nation state instead of a minor part of one is “withering”? Last time you disappeared when asked to prove this assertion. The most recent poll indicates that support for regionhood remains lower than it has been in living memory. Before the SNP’s tenure, only c55% opposition to Scottish sovereignty would have been unthinkable. Now it’s the new normal, and the once unquestioned proponents of an Anglocentric union seem to happily accept that it’s good enough, as long as it’s over 50%. That’s pretty complacent.
You are the most myopic of nationalists, Rob. You have never questioned the archaic “union”, and you are far too brainwashed to ever even accept doing so. You are a useful sheep to your superiors: a serf, an Uncle Tam, a willing dolt who can be relied on to support any party that caters to your dim-witted obsession with the Union Jack. If I were the wee chunky fake Colonel, I’d be laughing my tits off at just how easy it is to get the likes of you slavering, clapping, and washing out the mouthpiece of your flute.

Keep telling yourself that Ant, it’s all good. If the panelbase poll had reported a swing in favour of Independence you and the rest of the cavaliers on here would be swarming all over it, you can’t deny that. When wee Nippy returns from playing the ‘World Stateswoman’ in China, she’ll find the separatists hordes becoming increasingly restless and dissatisfied with the lack of progress within the movement. Tick Tock![emoji6]


JTA, I Notice there’s been no mention on here of Nicola challenging China on human rights issues in the same way that British Government ministers are called upon eh pal?
Just the usual wind and pish!

[renton]

Just now, RedRob72 said:

Keep telling yourself that Ant, it’s all good. If the panelbase poll had reported a swing in favour of Independence you and the rest of the cavaliers on here would be swarming all over it, you can’t deny that. When wee Nippy returns from playing the ‘World Stateswoman’ in China, she’ll find the separatists hordes becoming increasingly restless and dissatisfied with the lack of progress within the movement. Tick Tock!


JTA, I Notice there’s been no mention on here of Nicola challenging China on human rights issues in the same way that British Government ministers are called upon eh pal?
Just the usual wind and pish!

Only if they didn't understand polling.

Btw, I thought your mob referred to pro Indy folk as Jacobites, not Cavaliers.....

[Antlion]

12 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

Keep telling yourself that Ant, it’s all good. If the panelbase poll had reported a swing in favour of Independence you and the rest of the cavaliers on here would be swarming all over it, you can’t deny that. When wee Nippy returns from playing the ‘World Stateswoman’ in China, she’ll find the separatists hordes becoming increasingly restless and dissatisfied with the lack of progress within the movement. Tick Tock!


JTA, I Notice there’s been no mention on here of Nicola challenging China on human rights issues in the same way that British Government ministers are called upon eh pal?
Just the usual wind and pish!

I’m not telling myself anything - I’m telling you that you’re the mindless fodder of your separatist Tory chums, who know you’re too thick to consider policy, and can be bought with nothing more than an appeal to your nationalism. They can do what they like - they can trash your EU rights and privileges with alacrity - and you are too stupid, brainwashed, and gullible to do anything other than blindly support them. Ruthie knows this. Even the mindless May knows it. You are what is known as “voting fodder” to the likes of Colonel Cosplay and Mummy May. You will never be “restless” or “dissatisfied” with anything your party serves up, as long as its leaders make tokenstic appeals to your ardent nationalist beliefs. That is all you care about, and so all they need to do to keep you worshipping them.

 And still no evidence, then? Are you happy that the once largely unquestioned union is now sitting at c55% support, when not long ago it commanded 70+%?  Can you even see that your UK nationalist “victory” is a massive climb down, in one direction?

Edited April 9, 2018 by Antlion

[1320Lichtie]

Honestly have to read Robs stuff through my fingers it’s so cringeworthy.

I can just imagine him sitting at a bar, giving it the pals and mates but in an aggressive tone. One of they guys that seems very unhinged but you put it down to them just being too steaming. Before later on you see people holding him back because he’s kicked off at something.

Creep.

[John Lambies Doos]

We should never have allowed this Sevco monstrosity a lifeline imo.

[btb]

25 minutes ago, renton said:

When we start campaigning for it. If the last 4 years have shown anything it's the stability of the polls in the face of both positive and negative stimulus. While the constitutional question colours everyday politics it does so in a way that doesn't trigger a reaction towards the question itself. Only until there is overt and obvious campaigning on the issue will you see public engagement enough to begin to shift opinion.

I wish I shared your confidence, when the next Independence referendum does come round I expect it to be "no holds barred" from the No side. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by btb

[NotThePars]

I'm on the other side with regards to Independence but that's what worries me - if we haven't got a clear lead on Independence against May's Tories (the most shambolic govt. I can remember even more so than Major's.) & Corbyn's Labour Party with most of the PLP against him and still unclear on its policy on the major (sic) issue of the day, Brexit, when will we?

 

When the SNP start campaigning for it.

 

ETA: Missed renton saying the same thing! Corbyn’s Labour and Yes both saw consistent rises in the polls once they took to the streets and had a message. The SNP haven’t really had much to say the past couple of years but I expect the polls may start moving again when they do.

[strichener]

58 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

The idea of independence being an actual reality is relatively fresh, people have lived their whole lives in the system the way it is at the moment.

2014 has made the political outlook here so different, independence is still being talked about daily, every matter manages to find its way back to the subject. The UK as it is just now will continue to be under major scrutiny from people from now until forever, I’d imagine (unless things really change for scotland) each wee blow we take over the years will lead to it happening at some stage. I find it inevitable personally now the question has been asked.

Of course you’ll still have guys like Rob, but they’re a dying breed in a modern day Scotland.

Outside of politics, no-one is talking about it, the level of interest in the subject has tailed off from both sides.  Pretty much now the only mentions of independence are from the unionist parties using it to deflect attention away from other issues or used as their habitual response to anything involving the SNP.

[1320Lichtie]

Outside of politics, no-one is talking about it, the level of interest in the subject has tailed off from both sides.  Pretty much now the only mentions of independence are from the unionist parties using it to deflect attention away from other issues or used as their habitual response to anything involving the SNP.

Well I did mean political matters initially. Every political matter manages to work its way back to it, from what I see anyway, whether that’s the SNP using it to enhance their pro stance or the Tories using it to enhance their opposition to it every single day you see the same arguments about how one matter would be different for better or worse depending on whether we were or weren’t independent.

Same with Brexit.

[strichener]

10 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Well I did mean political matters initially. Every political matter manages to work its way back to it, from what I see anyway, whether that’s the SNP using it to enhance their pro stance or the Tories using it to enhance their opposition to it every single day you see the same arguments about how one matter would be different for better or worse depending on whether we were or weren’t independent.

Same with Brexit.

Which unfortunately results in people being pissed off with the whole thing and getting to the stage of "I wish they would just shut-up about it".  

This obviously plays out well for unionists since this is likely to hurt the indy movement more than unionism.  This is why you won't see any of the parties opposed to Indy stopping mentioning the "divisive" 2nd referendum any time soon.

[tirso]

1 hour ago, RedRob72 said:

 she’ll find the separatists hordes becoming increasingly restless and dissatisfied with the lack of progress within the movement. Tick Tock!

Ive read this a few times and it's hugely overplayed.  2014 changed things..aye there will be some people wanting to march over the border claymore in hand at a moments notice but the vast majority of independence voters are pretty mainstream.   quite happy to see how brexit plays out and will just vote yes next time the issue comes along.

nearly half the population or, at least 40% outright support independence now, it's not a radical issue anymore folk need to shout about.