When will indyref2 happen?

[NotThePars]

Undoubtedly the UK will seek to f**k Scotland, rewrite the Scotland Act (or ignore it) without the Scottish government’s agreement, and entrench Westminster control of Scotland in “devolved” areas.
The question is, will enough people see this as the democratic outrage it is? After all, the reconvened Scottish Parliament is relatively young. There are probably more people who have experienced the UK ruling Scotland as a province, and accept that as normal, than have known devolution. If the Scottish Parliament had been in operation for a longer period, people would be rightly rebelling against this.

That question’s the pertinent question though isn’t it? It’s not about whether we have the right to hold another referendum, we absolutely do. It’s whether the public at large can be motivated to give a shit again which is more difficult to gauge. I hope they are.

[Loondave1]

That question’s the pertinent question though isn’t it? It’s not about whether we have the right to hold another referendum, we absolutely do. It’s whether the public at large can be motivated to give a shit again which is more difficult to gauge. I hope they are.

I sense the desire is shifting from winning a referendum to simply holding one,hence the pressure to call one before the next Hollyrood elections potentially rule that out. In the current climate and lack of appetite I think the SNP will be punished severely if they do that. I expect more bluster and flannel from Bute house but no referendum call.Only in the land of mainly partizan forums etc would calling one seem realistic.As i say holding one is not the objective,it's winning one and a rush indicates the lack of confidence in the inevitability of Indy and smells of doubts.

[Ira Gaines]

I think calling one is definitely realistic. Would be a massive mistake I reckon, but it's a realistic proposition.

People want to see it soon because pro-indy parties might lose the majority. I'd question if we're ready to ask the question if that was possible, so that doesn't worry me.

[Colkitto]

1 hour ago, Loondave1 said:

I sense the desire is shifting from winning a referendum to simply holding one,hence the pressure to call one before the next Hollyrood elections potentially rule that out. In the current climate and lack of appetite I think the SNP will be punished severely if they do that. I expect more bluster and flannel from Bute house but no referendum call.Only in the land of mainly partizan forums etc would calling one seem realistic.As i say holding one is not the objective,it's winning one and a rush indicates the lack of confidence in the inevitability of Indy and smells of doubts.

If the pro-Union side was 25%-30% in the lead you may have a point. But being only approximately 5% ahead you don't. 

[Loondave1]

If the pro-Union side was 25%-30% in the lead you may have a point. But being only approximately 5% ahead you don't. 

Aye a do. Just a less palatable one for the majority on here.

[bob the tank]

If a referendum isn't called sooner rather than later, and if it isnt a victory for yes this time, the people in Scotland under the age of forty are fucked for life, and every generation in the future too. Scorched earth, slash and burn, what ever you want to call it, we are vital to England for our resources but the population count for nothing. That, bluntly is the scenario unless we get out of this precious union of kingdoms

[Peppino Impastato]

11 minutes ago, bob the tank said:

If a referendum isn't called sooner rather than later, and if it isnt a victory for yes this time, the people in Scotland under the age of forty are fucked for life, and every generation in the future too. Scorched earth, slash and burn, what ever you want to call it, we are vital to England for our resources but the population count for nothing. That, bluntly is the scenario unless we get out of this precious union of kingdoms

Absolutely.  What do you think they will do if we don't leave this time?  They'll make it so there's no chance we ever leave with all those juicy natural resources.  Which means they will dismantle our economy to make independence unthinkable.

[Peppino Impastato]

That's why they can't let the renewables sector flourish right now. It's a potential fkn goldmine for Scotland, what did Westminster do?  Cut funding to stifle development.

[bob the tank]

That's why they can't let the renewables sector flourish right now. It's a potential fkn goldmine for Scotland, what did Westminster do?  Cut funding to stifle development.

Exactly. If anybody studies how her majestys government behaved in the rest of their colonies its the same thing ad nauseam

[Peppino Impastato]

2 minutes ago, bob the tank said:

 

Exactly. If anybody studies how her majestys government behaved in the rest of their colonies its the same thing ad nauseam

 

Of course, that's why they're going all no surrender in pandering to bigots right now.  Classic divide and rule.

[John Lambies Doos]

 

Exactly. If anybody studies how her majestys government behaved in the rest of their colonies its the same thing ad nauseam

Fluffy Mundell, secretary of state for Scotland, will look after our interests . Question is will the secretary of state for England do likewise

 

[Antlion]

4 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Of course, that's why they're going all no surrender in pandering to bigots right now.  Classic divide and rule.

The “divide and rule” tactic is really overt. The Tories are only in a position of zombified “resurgence” thanks their desperately fuelling division. They’re not promoting division in order to create a better Scotland, but to maintain an old, ugly,  unthinking Scotland. The kicker is they have the nerve to decry division (whilst thriving on it and, on the European stage, negotiating it badly). 

[The_Kincardine]

5 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Of course, that's why they're going all no surrender in pandering to bigots right now.  Classic divide and rule.

 

32 minutes ago, Antlion said:

The “divide and rule” tactic is really overt. The Tories are only in a position of zombified “resurgence” thanks their desperately fuelling division. They’re not promoting division in order to create a better Scotland, but to maintain an old, ugly,  unthinking Scotland. The kicker is they have the nerve to decry division (whilst thriving on it and, on the European stage, negotiating it badly). 

Interested in the divide and rule tactic.  Who is dividing and who is ruling?  Which bigots are being pandered to?

[bob the tank]

Interested in the divide and rule tactic.  Who is dividing and who is ruling?  Which bigots are being pandered to?

You of all people have to ask that question...

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, bob the tank said:

 

You of all people have to ask that question...

 

Hm?  So can you give a thoughtful answer?

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said:

 

Interested in the divide and rule tactic.  Who is dividing and who is ruling?  Which bigots are being pandered to?

The Tory party is dividing and ruling. These animals are lapping it up, as Colonel Cosplay knows. 

[The_Kincardine]

2 minutes ago, Antlion said:

The Tory party is dividing and ruling. These animals are lapping it up, as Colonel Cosplay knows. 

Jesus.  The Tory Party?  It's a group of football fans.

[Antlion]

3 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Jesus.  The Tory Party?  It's a group of football fans.

Hm, so can’t you give a thoughtful answer? 

Not to offend the motherland, the Tory party also seeks to divide and rule by stoking up these types of bigots.

 

[The_Kincardine]

2 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Hm, so can’t you give a thoughtful answer? 

Not to offend the motherland, the Tory party also seeks to divide and rule by stoking up these types of bigots.

Where's the 'divide and rule' bit?  Dividing who from whom?

[Antlion]

Ultimately all political parties seek to divide. That’s how democracy works. The Labour Party seeks division along class lines, ostensibly to create a socialist state (though they don’t seem to have ever bothered doing so whilst in power). The SNP seeks to divide in order to win a majority to supporting Scotland’s statehood. The Tory party seeks to divide to conserve (a demonstrably unequal) past.