When will indyref2 happen?

[Loondave1]

Sturgeon wants a referendum once the terms of Brexit are known. There will be one called by early 2019.
No doubt you’re gonna tell me that she’ll not call one if the polls aren’t in her favour. People who say that are missing the point slightly. There is now no scenario that doesn’t present a huge amount of risk for the SNP. The (Indy) polls are consistent but aren’t the right side of the line, they may never be. But her miscalculation in misjudging the public mood, and prematurely sounding the IndyRef klaxon now means the troops she lead half way up the hill, will desert her (SNP) if she doesn’t go through with it. In that scenario the SNP is vulnerable come the next election and that risks Indy just as much as calling a Refrendum without the confidence of knowing you’ll win it.
This is a huge year for the independence cause and it’s high risk stuff, all or nothing really. 
 

High stakes gambling though Is that really the best we can do ?

[1320Lichtie]

Is he though is he really ? Is being a 100 times better a poster on a football forum actually a great acheivement in any sense of reality [emoji38] [emoji38] ? I still think he's a humourless potty mouthed Nat that does a fine job of highlighting reasons to steer well clear.

 

4 years now I’ve been saying to people that these kinds of comments are made by both sides.

 

ETA: actually you’re one of them on the other side of the fence that comes away with very similar things to what you’re criticising Pep for..

[dirty dingus]

The polls are bullshit anyway.  Who do they  ask?  Oor Wullie readers? I support Pep, I will not listen to fannies like loony dave and red haun rob as some sort of barometer of Scotlands views. 

[Jmothecat2]

The polls are bullshit anyway.  Who do they  ask?  Oor Wullie readers? I support Pep, I will not listen to fannies like loony dave and red haun rob as some sort of barometer of Scotlands views. 

With the last poll they asked me 570 times.

[dirty dingus]

2 minutes ago, Jmothecat2 said:

 

With the last poll they asked me 570 times.

 

Blairites are us, your a c**t an'all.

[git-intae-thum]

31 minutes ago, dirty dingus said:

The polls are bullshit anyway.  Who do they  ask?  Oor Wullie readers? I support Pep, I will not listen to fannies like loony dave and red haun rob as some sort of barometer of Scotlands views. 

Exactly......cheek to call anybody "potty mouthed nats."

 

 

 

 

[git-intae-thum]

6 hours ago, Jmothecat2 said:

 

Probably not but I'm closer to supporting independence than I ever have been before, thanks to a complete disillusionment with Westminster politics and I'm still pissed off about Brexit. I'm probably closer politically to the SNP (aside from the nationalism aspect) now than I am the current leadership of the Labour Party and as the influence of Momentum increases my reasons for remaining a Labour member increasingly diminish. The direction of the government worries me and the lack of effective opposition puts me in a position where I'm increasingly sympathetic to the notion of a radical solution like independence. There are a few significant stumbling blocks, I remain unconvinced by the economic arguments for example, and the overt nationalism of the movement is something I don't feel comfortable with. I was a firm no, and now I'm a soft no. Reading things like 'Scotland is a colony' frightens me right off though. The challenge is getting people who are pissed off about genuine things and situations that are actually happening, rather than creating fictional new ones which harm the legitimacy of the wider movement. We are a democratic country with the ability to determine our own future so creating a grievance over that doesn't reflect well. Focus on the 'democratic deficit' by all means, focus on being pissed off that Scotland voted to remain yet the UK is being pulled out of the EU. Voters in Scotland have a lot to be pissed off about right now. Of Yes/No and Remain/Leave voters the group who voted no and remain are probably the largest. That's a big group of people to target, who have something about the UK they aren't happy with that wasn't there during the Indy Ref. The best way of convincing that group isn't by talking about conspiracy theories, or dismissing them as people who 'fell for unionist lies' (nobody wants to feel like they were duped, no matter how strongly you may believe they were), but by focusing on what has changed since 2014 and how and why that makes independence a better prospect than it was when they voted no.

 

Soooooo........you deplore the Westminster govt.

You concede that you may well be closer politically to the snp than your own beloved labour. 

yet you would still vote no! Well wtf.

One can only assume that your vote is primarily dictated by nationalism..........of the British sort.

Kind of taints any advice on how to convert votes. If minds are hardened by nationalism its usually a lost cause. 

 

[Highland Capital]

5 hours ago, J_Stewart said:

I voted yes, I can't see any way I'll ever not vote yes as I strongly believe that Independence is the best route for Scotland to flourish, I'm also a member of the SNP, however, even I'm put off my raving militant loonies like Peppino and his ilk, who do nothing but hinder the 'yes movement' and play directly in to the MSM's "Nasty Nat" stereotype. We should be engaging and educating no voters, whether soft or hard, not insulting them and referring to them as "craven", or "traitors" or "cowards". It's completely counter productive. 

This is generally my viewpoint as well.  Cards on the table here, I voted Yes in 2014.  I'll probably vote Yes in the next referendum as well, not for any nationalistic or patriotic reasons, but simply because I think it'd be better than what we have right now.  I'm not a party member and don't plan on ever joining one, and there are scenarios where I'd consider voting No, but with it looking like we're going to get a hard Brexit, I don't see it.  In saying that, there are aspects to the Yes movement that make me cringe, not least the way that some seem to treat any form of criticism of the Yes movement and/or the SNP as a personal insult.  They're a political party just like the others and should get praise and criticism when they deserve it.  They aren't a football team, who you support no-matter what. 

There are many ways of promoting Yes and many who could be won over, but making an enemy of anyone who criticises it isn't a way to do it.

[Im_Rodger]

I would be fine for indyref 2.

If the SNP call a snap election (or wait until after the next election) and gain a majority of MSP’s to vote for Indyref 2.

[Londonwell]

10 hours ago, Loondave1 said:

High stakes gambling though Is that really the best we can do ?

The 2 options are Independence or staying within a hard/soft Brexit Britain. For people who you know believe in things- that is pretty high stakes yes.

Its not a situation of the SNP’s making but they have forced their own hand somewhat.

[RedRob72]

Scotland is clearly a territory controlled entirely by another territory.  That makes it a colony champ.  Our parliament just voted for a referendum which is being denied by a party we rejected categorically at the ballot box and have done constantly since 1950 yet who have governed us two thirds of the time since.  We are a colony.  And you are utterly craven.

You use that quite a lot as an insult Pep, but it’s a complete misnomer. It’s suggests cowardice and the inability to protect one’s own best interests and welfare.
I’m quite content with our place within the four corners of the UK and confident about the future of a self assured, prosperous nation that is inventive, productive and socially just.

Happiness, satisfaction and fulfilment are not usually the traits of someone who feels forced to tow the line and who lacks the courage to challenge the status quo if they feel dispirited and genuinely downhearted?

I realise that there are many who disagree and firmly support the wish for independence, but I’m sure there are still just as many Scots who are just not interested in your adversarial approach to political kinship with our neighbours.

Crack on though Pep, any future No Campaign in an IndyRef2 will welcome you with open arms, you are their biggest vote winner.

[Londonwell]

Whilst we all know Pep’s a complete fanny, you’ve got to laugh at all the Unionists giving advice on how best to entice them over to idea of a country running it’s own affairs. 

Do your own research but let’s face it lads you’ll never vote for it because it goes against what you believe in. Sad. 

[mjw]

Do your own research but let’s face it lads you’ll never vote for it because it goes against the football team you support.Sad. 

Ftfy

[RedRob72]

Whilst we all know Pep’s a complete fanny, you’ve got to laugh at all the Unionists giving advice on how best to entice them over to idea of a country running it’s own affairs. 

Do your own research but let’s face it lads you’ll never vote for it because it goes against what you believe in. Sad. 

It isn’t a case of being ‘enticed over’, I and millions of others are content with our place and role within the Union. The fact that Pep’s approach in labelling people who disagree with him/her as cowards and traitors just further entrenches the reaction to being told that we are ‘in the wrong’.

For what it’s worth, I’d much prefer to read Pep’s contributions that usually provoke at least some thought, interest and entertainment thrown in, than the usual digs.

He/she isn’t going to take ‘advice’ from me btw.

[Loondave1]

 
4 years now I’ve been saying to people that these kinds of comments are made by both sides.
 
ETA: actually you’re one of them on the other side of the fence that comes away with very similar things to what you’re criticising Pep for..

I refute any allegations of potty mouth humourless posting being my regular modus operandi. Pep's style bears no resemblance to mine thank you very much.

[Loondave1]

Whilst we all know Pep’s a complete fanny, you’ve got to laugh at all the Unionists giving advice on how best to entice them over to idea of a country running it’s own affairs. 
Do your own research but let’s face it lads you’ll never vote for it because it goes against what you believe in. Sad. 

You have a breadth of vision that eludes most on here. Particularly in relation to Pep.

[Jeff Venom]

It isn’t a case of being ‘enticed over’, I and millions of others are content with our place and role within the Union. The fact that Pep’s approach in labelling people who disagree with him as cowards and traitors just further entrenches the reaction to being told that we are ‘in the wrong’.
For what it’s worth, I’d much prefer to read Pep’s contributions that usually provoke at least some thought, interest and entertainment thrown in, than the usual digs.
He/she isn’t going to take ‘advice’ from me btw.

What is this role and place in the union that you're content with, in your mind, out of curiosity?
I'm not waiting in the wings to shoot it down, just interested.

[RedRob72]

What is this role and place in the union that you're content with, in your mind, out of curiosity?
I'm not waiting in the wings to shoot it down, just interested.

Our place as an integral partner within a successful and long standing relationship, a Union that has brought considerable prosperity and stability to these islands for Centuries. Our role and contribution to which is immeasurable. Despite the disappointment of the EU referendum result, I remain positive and optimistic as to what opportunities the future may hold and what can be achieved together as a United Kingdom.

[bob the tank]

Our place as an integral partner within a successful and long standing relationship, a Union that has brought considerable prosperity and stability to SOME PARTS of these islands for Centuries. Our role and contribution to which is immeasurable. Despite the disappointment of the EU referendum result, I remain positive and optimistic as to what opportunities the future may hold and what can be achieved together as a United Kingdom.

FTFY. We are now the "scroungers" of the UK who actually pay in more than we get out, and have been democratically sidelined

[Loondave1]

FTFY. We are now the "scroungers" of the UK who actually pay in more than we get out, and have been democratically sidelined

I thought we had a "democratic" vote about it so if your take on that is that we have been "democratically sidelined" it is none the less our democratic decision ironically.Democracy in action.