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When will indyref2 happen?


Colkitto

Indyref2  

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Personally speaking I’m just incredibly pissed off with the way The UK View and treat us.

13 Tory MP’s went down there, vowing to fight for Scotland.

They’ve ignored Scotland completely, consistently attack the SNP (over Westminster reserve matters) and they’re probably putting in fraud expenses whilst they have a chance.


IMO the best way to frame the argument, and the most correct, is to focus on the complete failure of Westminster to protect Scotland from Thatcher, to utilise the oil boom and to portray independence as the most successful way to protect the welfare state from the ideological attacks of the Tories.
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I voted yes, I can't see any way I'll ever not vote yes as I strongly believe that Independence is the best route for Scotland to flourish, I'm also a member of the SNP, however, even I'm put off my raving militant loonies like Peppino and his ilk, who do nothing but hinder the 'yes movement' and play directly in to the MSM's "Nasty Nat" stereotype. We should be engaging and educating no voters, whether soft or hard, not insulting them and referring to them as "craven", or "traitors" or "cowards". It's completely counter productive. 

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1 hour ago, Jmothecat2 said:

 


Probably not but I'm closer to supporting independence than I ever have been before, thanks to a complete disillusionment with Westminster politics and I'm still pissed off about Brexit. I'm probably closer politically to the SNP (aside from the nationalism aspect) now than I am the current leadership of the Labour Party and as the influence of Momentum increases my reasons for remaining a Labour member increasingly diminish. The direction of the government worries me and the lack of effective opposition puts me in a position where I'm increasingly sympathetic to the notion of a radical solution like independence. There are a few significant stumbling blocks, I remain unconvinced by the economic arguments for example, and the overt nationalism of the movement is something I don't feel comfortable with. I was a firm no, and now I'm a soft no. Reading things like 'Scotland is a colony' frightens me right off though. The challenge is getting people who are pissed off about genuine things and situations that are actually happening, rather than creating fictional new ones which harm the legitimacy of the wider movement. We are a democratic country with the ability to determine our own future so creating a grievance over that doesn't reflect well. Focus on the 'democratic deficit' by all means, focus on being pissed off that Scotland voted to remain yet the UK is being pulled out of the EU. Voters in Scotland have a lot to be pissed off about right now. Of Yes/No and Remain/Leave voters the group who voted no and remain are probably the largest. That's a big group of people to target, who have something about the UK they aren't happy with that wasn't there during the Indy Ref. The best way of convincing that group isn't by talking about conspiracy theories, or dismissing them as people who 'fell for unionist lies' (nobody wants to feel like they were duped, no matter how strongly you may believe they were), but by focusing on what has changed since 2014 and how and why that makes independence a better prospect than it was when they voted no.

 

We are not a democratic country with the ability to determine our own future we had a vote in our parliament the result was to have a referendum and we're told no by a government in London we didn't elect.

 

You can deny reality all you want but Scotland is and is treated as a colony.  And you'll never vote yes you're a concern troll, who said your vote depended on what you thought was best for the UK not Scotland.  Your words. Making you a British nationalist.

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14 minutes ago, J_Stewart said:

I voted yes, I can't see any way I'll ever not vote yes as I strongly believe that Independence is the best route for Scotland to flourish, I'm also a member of the SNP, however, even I'm put off my raving militant loonies like Peppino and his ilk, who do nothing but hinder the 'yes movement' and play directly in to the MSM's "Nasty Nat" stereotype. We should be engaging and educating no voters, whether soft or hard, not insulting them and referring to them as "craven", or "traitors" or "cowards". It's completely counter productive. 

Whatever, some unionists are utterly craven.  If telling the truth offends your sensibilities I couldn't give less of a fk.

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57 minutes ago, mizfit said:

Personally speaking I’m just incredibly pissed off with the way The UK View and treat us.

13 Tory MP’s went down there, vowing to fight for Scotland.

They’ve ignored Scotland completely, consistently attack the SNP (over Westminster reserve matters) and they’re probably putting in fraud expenses whilst they have a chance.

And haven't rebelled against the government to protect Scotland once between them.

 

David mumdell has done that zero times in almost eleven years too.

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1 hour ago, mizfit said:

Personally speaking I’m just incredibly pissed off with the way The UK View and treat us.

13 Tory MP’s went down there, vowing to fight for Scotland.

They’ve ignored Scotland completely, consistently attack the SNP (over Westminster reserve matters) and they’re probably putting in fraud expenses whilst they have a chance.

It was the Scots who voted for them who put the Tories in power, doubtless quite a few Labour supporters.

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Whatever, some unionists are utterly craven.  If telling the truth offends your sensibilities I couldn't give less of a fk.

Pep as ever giving good reason to avoid Nationalist roasters and doing his bit to chase potential YES converts. Great work.
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I voted yes, I can't see any way I'll ever not vote yes as I strongly believe that Independence is the best route for Scotland to flourish, I'm also a member of the SNP, however, even I'm put off my raving militant loonies like Peppino and his ilk, who do nothing but hinder the 'yes movement' and play directly in to the MSM's "Nasty Nat" stereotype. We should be engaging and educating no voters, whether soft or hard, not insulting them and referring to them as "craven", or "traitors" or "cowards". It's completely counter productive. 

Absolutely this.

To call Scotland a colony is pretty desperate stuff. Especially when we were right up to our oxters in the actual colonising of the British empire.

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We are not a democratic country with the ability to determine our own future we had a vote in our parliament the result was to have a referendum and we're told no by a government in London we didn't elect.
 
You can deny reality all you want but Scotland is and is treated as a colony.  And you'll never vote yes you're a concern troll, who said your vote depended on what you thought was best for the UK not Scotland.  Your words. Making you a British nationalist.

Do you honestly think sturgeon and the snp hierarchy want another referendum at the moment?

Fucking hell.
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Do you honestly think sturgeon and the snp hierarchy want another referendum at the moment?

Fucking hell.
At the moment? No, probably not. The majority of polls have shown a slight increase in support for Indy but nowhere near enough to be confident of victory.

Plus, the polls just before the referendum were all around 47 percent too. The final difference of 10 points was more than expected.

Sturgeons job though; is to protect Scotland's interests. The PM wants a 2 year transition out of the EU starting next year and if that happens I fully expect a referendum late next year, gives the government time to set up for an Indy scotland within the EU.
If a hard brexit has started to bite, soft no voters are feeling the pinch and yes leavers stick with a yes vote then there's a decent chance of a yes vote.
It's a lot of 'if's' tho...

Also, I suspect the no campaign will play even dirtier this time and I wouldn't even be surprised to see a vote blocked. Isolating themselves from the EU and 'losing Scotland' in the space if a couple of years will be too much for them.
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At the moment? No, probably not. The majority of polls have shown a slight increase in support for Indy but nowhere near enough to be confident of victory.

Plus, the polls just before the referendum were all around 47 percent too. The final difference of 10 points was more than expected.

Sturgeons job though; is to protect Scotland's interests. The PM wants a 2 year transition out of the EU starting next year and if that happens I fully expect a referendum late next year, gives the government time to set up for an Indy scotland within the EU.
If a hard brexit has started to bite, soft no voters are feeling the pinch and yes leavers stick with a yes vote then there's a decent chance of a yes vote.
It's a lot of 'if's' tho...

Also, I suspect the no campaign will play even dirtier this time and I wouldn't even be surprised to see a vote blocked. Isolating themselves from the EU and 'losing Scotland' in the space if a couple of years will be too much for them.
I agree.

It could all change, and change quite quickly. But pep's post suggested they were the ones denying us our right.

That's just nonsense.
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The fact that Peppino is an honest poster, not a self confessed troll who can never be trusted to give their own opinion, means that despite the fact that he's clearly an arsehole, he's still 100 times the poster that loondave is.

Is he though is he really ? Is being a 100 times better a poster on a football forum actually a great acheivement in any sense of reality [emoji38] [emoji38] ? I still think he's a humourless potty mouthed Nat that does a fine job of highlighting reasons to steer well clear.
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I agree.

It could all change, and change quite quickly. But pep's post suggested they were the ones denying us our right.

That's just nonsense.
I wasn't really replying with peps post in mind and although I agree with some of what he posts, I'm not entertain the colony argument.

Agree that it could all change, I'm not even convinced brexit will happen at all.
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1 hour ago, pandarilla said:


Do you honestly think sturgeon and the snp hierarchy want another referendum at the moment?

Fucking hell.

Sturgeon wants a referendum once the terms of Brexit are known. There will be one called by early 2019.

No doubt you’re gonna tell me that she’ll not call one if the polls aren’t in her favour. People who say that are missing the point slightly. There is now no scenario that doesn’t present a huge amount of risk for the SNP. The (Indy) polls are consistent but aren’t the right side of the line, they may never be. But her miscalculation in misjudging the public mood, and prematurely sounding the IndyRef klaxon now means the troops she lead half way up the hill, will desert her (SNP) if she doesn’t go through with it. In that scenario the SNP is vulnerable come the next election and that risks Indy just as much as calling a Refrendum without the confidence of knowing you’ll win it.

This is a huge year for the independence cause and it’s high risk stuff, all or nothing really. 

 

Edited by Londonwell
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