When will indyref2 happen?

[ayrmad]

I've consistently stated that I think the time for indyref2 is after people have had a chance to live with the full effects of Brexit but I really don't understand why these Tory and BBC b*****ds think that a poorly framed, fundamentally flawed and misrepresented opinion poll takes precedence over a majority vote in the Scottish Parliament.

I think it's time for Nicola and Co to shove all in and go for a single issue election, if they don't win they won't win a referendum anyway.

[Crùbag]

1 hour ago, sfha said:

They didn't say the referendum wasn't going to happen, just not now. Why on Earth have a referendum on independence, based sorely on the idea of "Brexit", when they have no idea what the negotiations will ultimately bring. Anyone with any brain whatsoever would wait and see what any new trade deals etc would bring and decide then. Anyone thinking otherwise are, to go by what has been said before about NO voters and brexiteers, dolts, idiots, brainwashed imbeciles and so forth.

Er... who said this?

Sturgeon's proposed timetable matches May's. 18 months to two years. Not now FFS.

[vikingTON]

5 hours ago, Mr Heliums said:

But most importantly, something like this, even if successful, would imply UDI at the end of it. That's one area where Spain would struggle to recognise Scotland, let alone allow it into the EU.

Erm, Spain doesn't actually determine whether an independent Scotland gains recognition as a sovereign state. This isn't the 16th Century: nobody really cares about what Spain thinks. You've drank far too much of the Britnat Kool-Aid. 

Spain holds a veto over EU membership for new entrants, which is a) not an issue, as Scotland could join EFTA anyway and enjoy access to the single market, freedom of movement and 90% of the benefits of EU membership without facing any veto and b) not an issue, because Scotland breaking away from a state exiting the EU is not the same scenario as Catalonia or any other part of Spain seeking independence from an EU member state. 

[Fide]

7 hours ago, sfha said:

They didn't say the referendum wasn't going to happen, just not now. Why on Earth have a referendum on independence, based sorely on the idea of "Brexit", when they have no idea what the negotiations will ultimately bring. Anyone with any brain whatsoever would wait and see what any new trade deals etc would bring and decide then. Anyone thinking otherwise are, to go by what has been said before about NO voters and brexiteers, dolts, idiots, brainwashed imbeciles and so forth.

Smashing idea.

Let's wait till the train derails and smashes into a fucking bridge before we jump from it.

[Mr Heliums]

4 hours ago, virginton said:

Erm, Spain doesn't actually determine whether an independent Scotland gains recognition as a sovereign state. This isn't the 16th Century: nobody really cares about what Spain thinks. You've drank far too much of the Britnat Kool-Aid.  

I know this. I have no worries about EU accession if Yes wins a second, lawful referendum. But what makes you think a UK that had already rejected a democratic vote by the Scottish Parliament would prostrate themselves to recognise a state that would have to have declared UDI following a Westminster election? And if the UK didn't recognise us, who else would? EFTA and the EU would not want us.

And what if the SNP won most seats in a FPTP election, but only won – say, 40% of the vote? That isn't unlikely. Or what if the SNP lost? Dismissed as a single-issue party for a generation, playing right into the hands of other parties up here.

Honestly, the whole idea is so daft on so many levels that not only is it not worth arguing about, it would never happen. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by Mr Heliums

[Spain]

4 hours ago, virginton said:

nobody really cares about what Spain thinks. 

[The Master]

Quote

Parliament may have given its approval for Theresa May to trigger the UK's departure from the EU but another Brexit battle is looming in the form of the government's Great Repeal Bill.

This is how ministers plan to ensure EU law no longer applies in the UK - and it's going to be a more complex piece of legislation than the 133-word Brexit bill just passed by MPs and peers.
...
The role of the devolved administrations has yet to be fully set out. The government has suggested their consent will be required, as it will have implications in areas they are responsible for.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39266723

 

[Antlion]

10 hours ago, sfha said:

The referendum last year asked if we wanted to remain in the EU, yes or no. Simple. We won so the Gvmt takes up the challenge of negotiating our resignation. Simple.

But you've stated that people who vote for things without knowing the precise outcome are braindead, idiotic dolts. Apparently you count yourself within that number. You admit you voted in favour of separatism without knowing anything more than you'd be ripping the UK out of the EU, tearing Europe apart, etc. No plan, no detail, no process, just divisive separation - and you voted in favour of it.

[K.T]

Am I wrong to think that the timing of the referendum is so as to stop Westminster negotiating with our assets during Brexit? I imagine if we had one after brexit it would be a lot more complicated for Independence to actually happen. But I concede I'm not as clued up as the majority on this thread so apologies if I'm way off.

[sergie's no1 fan]

Am I wrong to think that the timing of the referendum is so as to stop Westminster negotiating with our assets during Brexit? I imagine if we had one after brexit it would be a lot more complicated for Independence to actually happen. But I concede I'm not as clued up as the majority on this thread so apologies if I'm way off.

Yeah i think if we were to have it after Brexit has went through it would be much more complicated and we'd also be out of the EU. I think the plan is to stay in the EU before the UK officially finish negotiations so we can transfer without any hitches. We obviously can't do that if we are dragged out.

Well that's my take on it anyway.

[philyerboots]

[1320Lichtie]

It's very sad you feel this way, if this was an issue you really supported and the Scottish parliament who were democratically voted for, by yourself and the rest of the country, supported too how would you feel if London just said 'f**k you were no bothered well decide'?

Within the U.K. nobody gives a f**k about my voice or your voice or Scotlands yet you seem to take some strange kind of joy from that.

[Crùbag]

Another Labour activist leaves the sinking ship. Captain Kezia doing sterling work.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15190605.Labour_defection_to_SNP_over_constitution_as_Dugdale_pushes_federalism/?ref=mr&lp=1

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Erm, Spain doesn't actually determine whether an independent Scotland gains recognition as a sovereign state. This isn't the 16th Century

If it was the 16th century we would be a sovereign state anyway

[Colkitto]

2 hours ago, Mr Heliums said:

I know this. I have no worries about EU accession if Yes wins a second, lawful referendum. But what makes you think a UK that had already rejected a democratic vote by the Scottish Parliament would prostrate themselves to recognise a state that would have to have declared UDI following a Westminster election? And if the UK didn't recognise us, who else would? EFTA and the EU would not want us.

And what if the SNP won most seats in a FPTP election, but only won – say, 40% of the vote? That isn't unlikely. Or what if the SNP lost? Dismissed as a single-issue party for a generation, playing right into the hands of other parties up here.

Honestly, the whole idea is so daft on so many levels that not only is it not worth arguing about, it would never happen. 

It's not the preferred option but it is an option, especially if the Tory government continually kick this into the long grass. 

 

Strangely enough former SNP MSP marco Biagi tweeted this "I make it a 10% chance (and rising) that SNP fights the 2020 election on a platform of just declaring independence if vote is over 50%"

 

So it's obviously being talked about  

[Mr Heliums]

Just now, Colkitto said:

It's not the preferred option but it is an option, especially if the Tory government continually kick this into the long grass. 

Strangely enough former SNP MSP marco Biagi tweeted this "I make it a 10% chance (and rising) that SNP fights the 2020 election on a platform of just declaring independence if vote is over 50%"

So it's obviously being talked about  

It may be talked about, but they'll run into the same problems I've mentioned and that's why it will never happen. Even an unauthorised referendum would be preferable.

[Colkitto]

11 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

It may be talked about, but they'll run into the same problems I've mentioned and that's why it will never happen. Even an unauthorised referendum would be preferable.

I would imagine the SNP government would be taking legal advice before making such a move.

As I say, it's not my preferred route to Independence but we cannot simply just shrug our shoulders and say fair enough when Westminster doesn't acknowledge the democratic will of the Scottish parliament.

It's an option, albeit an outside chance of happening at the moment 

 

[Antlion]

If branch leader Ruthie is so concerned about the wishes of the people of Scotland, why is she happy for us to be governed by a party we rejected?

[Anonapersona]

Can Scotland make a case to the EU courts if the Tories deny a referendum until after Brexit, which really means no referendum ever?

[Enigma]

I guess a problem with the unauthorised referendum is the No side could call a boycott and delegitimise it.