kirkyblue2 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Here's the motion they are voting on. "That the parliament acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs and therefore mandates the Scottish government to take forward discussions with the UK government on the details of an order under section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998 to ensure that the Scottish Parliament can legislate for a referendum to be held that will give the people of Scotland a choice over the future direction and governance of their country at a time - and with a question and franchise - determined by the Scottish Parliament, which would most appropriately be between the autumn of 2018, when there is clarity over the outcome of the Brexit negotiations, and around the point at which the UK leaves the EU in spring 2019." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blootoon87 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 That's the longest sentence I've ever seen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 1 hour ago, BerwickMad said: Personally, I'm not a nationalist, so the teary speech by that Motherwell and Wishaw MSP doesn't wash, and neither does the 'a different kind of division' stuff from Neil Findlay. I'm someone who believes that the nation state should becoming less and less relevant and we should be making unions as opposed to breaking them. Do you believe that we should be making/ maintaining unions even if they're overbearing, broken, unfair, archaic and unbalanced? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Here's the motion they are voting on. "That the parliament acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs and therefore mandates the Scottish government to take forward discussions with the UK government on the details of an order under section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998 to ensure that the Scottish Parliament can legislate for a referendum to be held that will give the people of Scotland a choice over the future direction and governance of their country at a time - and with a question and franchise - determined by the Scottish Parliament, which would most appropriately be between the autumn of 2018, when there is clarity over the outcome of the Brexit negotiations, and around the point at which the UK leaves the EU in spring 2019." I agree 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkyblue2 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: I agree Hard to disagree tbf. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Seconded 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DublinMagyar Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Motion passed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I agree Hard to disagree tbf. Seconded Motion passed You have no mandate.Back in your box all of you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 You have no mandate.Back in your box all of you. Its ok im a "green" ( some people will get this) and i support them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 21 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: I agree Nonsense. You have to earn that right. Listen to Ruth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Do you believe that we should be making/ maintaining unions even if they're overbearing, broken, unfair, archaic and unbalanced? Well no. And that's a good debate to be had as to whether this one is or not. If, for example, you say something is unfair and base the argument on 'we're a nation, you're a region', then I'm unlikely to go for it as I'm not a nationalist. The kind of argument Mhairi Black seems to be putting forward on twitter comparing Scotland to London. I'd be more persuaded if the argument was that the union was failing to take into account the needs of a constituent part. Off the top of my head, the union was only delivering policies suited to urban areas and not taking into account rural areas. Unfairness in a 'tyranny of the majority' type way. Then you can argue as to whether these needs can been catered for by devolving power over certain things to constituent parts, or full on independence from the union is needed. I don't go for unfairness based on nationality and I think that the referendums we have seen have exaggerated difference. My view is unions are valuable and although different constituent parts of a union have different needs, that doesn't necessarily mean the whole idea of the union is bad. I don't have an ideal in my head as to what the perfect shape of a union, whether that be the UK or Europe should be, but I favour further integration and growing unions, generally. But yes, if the union, whatever union, is disadvantaging a constituent part, then that needs to be addressed and that's the debate that can be had about how to best address it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz FFC Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Had my 1st indy 2 war this morning. Me and a fellow yes man were having a discussion about how we subsidise England and they prefer to believe it's the other way around when a Unionist butted in absolutely seething at the SNP. He snapped about "once in a lifetime" and was visibly raging at the thought of a 2nd referendum. I was surprised the yes man is in fact a yes man as he worked down South a lot and also is a Rangers fan. The unionist was making a fool of himself and telling us to "open yer eyes" to which I never actually asked him what he meant. His general rage at the topic and not wanting it to spread to the other 8 guys sitting around us seemed to have us biting our tongue and not wishing to delve into politics at 8AM. Still 2 years to go so I assume their will be many more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Had my 1st indy 2 war this morning. Me and a fellow yes man were having a discussion about how we subsidise England and they prefer to believe it's the other way around when a Unionist butted in absolutely seething at the SNP. He snapped about "once in a lifetime" and was visibly raging at the thought of a 2nd referendum. I was surprised the yes man is in fact a yes man as he worked down South a lot and also is a Rangers fan. The unionist was making a fool of himself and telling us to "open yer eyes" to which I never actually asked him what he meant. His general rage at the topic and not wanting it to spread to the other 8 guys sitting around us seemed to have us biting our tongue and not wishing to delve into politics at 8AM. Still 2 years to go so I assume their will be many more. Pleasing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 2 hours ago, kirkyblue2 said: Here's the motion they are voting on. "That the parliament acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs and therefore mandates the Scottish government to take forward discussions with the UK government on the details of an order under section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998 to ensure that the Scottish Parliament can legislate for a referendum to be held that will give the people of Scotland a choice over the future direction and governance of their country at a time - and with a question and franchise - determined by the Scottish Parliament, which would most appropriately be between the autumn of 2018, when there is clarity over the outcome of the Brexit negotiations, and around the point at which the UK leaves the EU in spring 2019." Where's the bit about storming the ramparts and smiting our enemy if the UK government says no? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Gaz FFC said: Had my 1st indy 2 war this morning. Me and a fellow yes man were having a discussion about how we subsidise England and they prefer to believe it's the other way around when a Unionist butted in absolutely seething at the SNP. He snapped about "once in a lifetime" and was visibly raging at the thought of a 2nd referendum. I was surprised the yes man is in fact a yes man as he worked down South a lot and also is a Rangers fan. The unionist was making a fool of himself and telling us to "open yer eyes" to which I never actually asked him what he meant. His general rage at the topic and not wanting it to spread to the other 8 guys sitting around us seemed to have us biting our tongue and not wishing to delve into politics at 8AM. Still 2 years to go so I assume their will be many more. Visited my mum and dad a couple of days ago, for the first time since Sturgeons announcement. All was well until the news came on, then my dad started reflexively screaming stuff at the tv about Catholics, how fat Alex Salmond is and how much he hates the SNP with my mum nodding her agreement. A long road to the next indyref awaits, sadly. Edited March 22, 2017 by Thistle_do_nicely 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 17 minutes ago, Thistle_do_nicely said: Visited my mum and dad a couple of days ago, for the first time since Sturgeons announcement. All was well until the news came on, then my dad started reflexively screaming stuff at the tv about Catholics, how fat Alex Salmond is and how much he hates the SNP with my mum nodding her agreement. A long road to the next indyref awaits, sadly. What is it about vast swathes of our grey haired citizens that makes them so utterly apopleptic about the SNP? For all the mewling from Unionists about cybernats and division, there is no rage quite as fearsome as that belonging to your average SNP-hater. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Visited my mum and dad a couple of days ago, for the first time since Sturgeons announcement. All was well until the news came on, then my dad started reflexively screaming stuff at the tv about Catholics, how fat Alex Salmond is and how much he hates the SNP with my mum nodding her agreement. A long road to the next indyref awaits, sadly. Imagine voting no because salmond is fat [emoji2] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 1 minute ago, John Lambies Doos said: Imagine voting no because salmond is fat Let's not forget though. He has an old wife as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 9 minutes ago, Fide said: What is it about vast swathes of our grey haired citizens that makes them so utterly apopleptic about the SNP? For all the mewling from Unionists about cybernats and division, there is no rage quite as fearsome as that belonging to your average SNP-hater. Bloody SNP, asking them to prove they're the "proud and patriotic Scots" they've always claimed to be by asking them whether Scotland should be an internationally-recognised nation state! Time was you could just pretend you saw Scotland as a worthy country whilst enjoying it being a wee northern part of glorious Great Britain. "WE WERE IN A WAR YOU KNOW!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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