When will indyref2 happen?

[Jamaldo]

To be fair not once in that Sky piece does Sturgeon say, "we'll use the pound in a currency union with the UK". Salmond said that last time and it didn't fly with some voters.

We can use the pound, and it's ok to say that because it's true. It's not ok to say we'll be in a currency union though as Westminster can just say they won't do a deal.

[GTG_03]

I'd be happy with the euro or a Scottish currency tbh, they'll get stick for whichever route they choose but out own currency/central bank is hardest to argue against.

 

Fwiw I can't wait until the council elections in may. I hope and think labour will take an absolute hiding. A single figure percentage would be quality.

Imagine rolling out Gordon Brown with some hastily assembled rehash of federalism and thinking it'll help their cause.

Will they ever learn?

 

 

[ayrmad]

2 hours ago, GTG_03 said:

I'd be happy with the euro or a Scottish currency tbh, they'll get stick for whichever route they choose but out own currency/central bank is hardest to argue against.

 

Fwiw I can't wait until the council elections in may. I hope and think labour will take an absolute hiding. A single figure percentage would be quality.

Imagine rolling out Gordon Brown with some hastily assembled rehash of federalism and thinking it'll help their cause.

Will they ever learn?

 

 

Sturgeon will deserve a right good slap in the chops if we go into this referendum campaign with the same currency arguments as the last time.

We need to be bad b*****ds in any debates this time.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

45 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

Sturgeon will deserve a right good slap in the chops if we go into this referendum campaign with the same currency arguments as the last time.

We need to be bad b*****ds in any debates this time.

Exactly this. 

I'll be absolutely seething if the SNP's strategists haven't learned from the last f**k up over currency and meekly set out a similar stall. It'll render a vote utterly pointless as Yes will get an absolute drubbing. 

I agree with your second point as well. We spent the last referendum try to play far too nicely in the face of utter bullshit from much of the media, and arseholes like Gordon Brown. We need to properly fight the Indy corner this time, nail down the stuff that didn't fly last time (ie currency) and only put out the big hitters in televised debates. 

If the SNP/Greens do the above properly and Scotland still votes No then we'll quite frankly deserve the abject misery that the next 3 or 4 Tory Governments are going to pile onto us. 

 

[Fide]

8 minutes ago, jupe1407 said:

Exactly this. 

I'll be absolutely seething if the SNP's strategists haven't learned from the last f**k up over currency and meekly set out a similar stall. It'll render a vote utterly pointless as Yes will get an absolute drubbing. 

I agree with your second point as well. We spent the last referendum try to play far too nicely in the face of utter bullshit from much of the media, and arseholes like Gordon Brown. We need to properly fight the Indy corner this time, nail down the stuff that didn't fly last time (ie currency) and only put out the big hitters in televised debates. 

If the SNP/Greens do the above properly and Scotland still votes No then we'll quite frankly deserve the abject misery that the next 3 or 4 Tory Governments are going to pile onto us. 

 

I fucking agree with every word of this.

I find myself nodding In agreement to pretty much all your posts.  I was saying to the Mrs at the weekend that, if we vote No in the next referendum, after a hard Brexit and all the shite we've had from the Tories, all the broken promises from the last indyref, all the snidey comments in online comments sections, all the ignorance and condescendence shown to us in Westminster, then we fucking don't deserve to be an independent country.

[Ross.]

1 hour ago, jupe1407 said:

Exactly this. 

I'll be absolutely seething if the SNP's strategists haven't learned from the last f**k up over currency and meekly set out a similar stall. It'll render a vote utterly pointless as Yes will get an absolute drubbing. 

I agree with your second point as well. We spent the last referendum try to play far too nicely in the face of utter bullshit from much of the media, and arseholes like Gordon Brown. We need to properly fight the Indy corner this time, nail down the stuff that didn't fly last time (ie currency) and only put out the big hitters in televised debates. 

If the SNP/Greens do the above properly and Scotland still votes No then we'll quite frankly deserve the abject misery that the next 3 or 4 Tory Governments are going to pile onto us. 

 

Seems this is the angle that the Unionists have decided is the weak link in the Independence movement. All going on about it the last few days, George Galloway especially. The bolded bit I agree with completely.

[Ross.]

16 hours ago, Crùbag said:

 

What's the answer to this though? Unionists will use this a 'weakness' whatever the choice. Starting our own currency will be a 'course into the unknown' or some BS, the Euro is 'being ruled by Brussels' and a union with Sterling is... well unworkable, not 'independence' etc etc... Personally, I don't give a shit about the currency. Is it really that big a factor?

The answer is to share the £ initially while working towards our own currency over a period of time agreed on at both sides. That would suit rUK as much as it would suit iScotland. £ would lose considerable value thanks to independence, that approach would give them further time to work on their own issues.

[doulikefish]

Dont reveal the big stuff until the campaign begins

[ayrmad]

1 hour ago, jupe1407 said:

Exactly this. 

I'll be absolutely seething if the SNP's strategists haven't learned from the last f**k up over currency and meekly set out a similar stall. It'll render a vote utterly pointless as Yes will get an absolute drubbing. 

I agree with your second point as well. We spent the last referendum try to play far too nicely in the face of utter bullshit from much of the media, and arseholes like Gordon Brown. We need to properly fight the Indy corner this time, nail down the stuff that didn't fly last time (ie currency) and only put out the big hitters in televised debates. 

If the SNP/Greens do the above properly and Scotland still votes No then we'll quite frankly deserve the abject misery that the next 3 or 4 Tory Governments are going to pile onto us. 

 

Couldn't agree more, I'd go as far as to say another indyref will and should be off the table for at least 20 years if we get a pumping again.

[renton]

Sturgeon, as far as I could tell, didn't rule anything in or out - merely said the commission was still meeting to decide policy.

FWIW any currency option is going to take a hit - all carry some amount of risk. My guess is they will go for a separate Scottish currency, pegged to Sterling in the short run. From a political point of view, it has that "looks right, flies right" quality, and doesn't surrender any prisoners of fortune to Westminster like the currency union did. Indeed, a currency Union with us in the EU and them out of it is illogical. However, be prepared for the push back on the complexities of setting up your own central bank, and related topics.

[ICTJohnboy]

We'll certainly never have a better opportunity for indy, and of course to remain European, given the mess May and her pals are getting themselves into over  brexit which will apparently come with a good deal or a bad deal or no deal - when it comes to uncertainty they're in a class of their own.

I agree with those who suggest that the currency should initially be the pound - no reason why it shouldn't, it is our currency too - although no doubt there will be plenty down Westminster way who will suggest otherwise.

[welshbairn]

The Slovak experience with currency seems to have gone ok, from a quick look at Wiki. Initially in 1993 they shared the Koruna with the Czech Republic but issued their own version within months. It retained parity for a while then floated. Being the poorer part of the union the Slovak Koruna dropped in value, which seems to have encouraged growth which outstripped their richer neighbours. About a decade later they joined ERM2 and finally adopted the Euro in 2009. One advantage they had was a cooperative partner in the Czech Republic. There was no rCzechoslovakia, the State was dissolved and the two new ones had to apply for membership of the UN and other international bodies.

Edited March 20, 2017 by welshbairn

[ayrmad]

34 minutes ago, renton said:

Sturgeon, as far as I could tell, didn't rule anything in or out - merely said the commission was still meeting to decide policy.

FWIW any currency option is going to take a hit - all carry some amount of risk. My guess is they will go for a separate Scottish currency, pegged to Sterling in the short run. From a political point of view, it has that "looks right, flies right" quality, and doesn't surrender any prisoners of fortune to Westminster like the currency union did. Indeed, a currency Union with us in the EU and them out of it is illogical. However, be prepared for the push back on the complexities of setting up your own central bank, and related topics.

That will just be wind and pish, it's not hard to set up a central bank, our problem is that Westminster has depleted their reserves significantly over the last 10 or 15 years.

[Colkitto]

1 hour ago, renton said:

Sturgeon, as far as I could tell, didn't rule anything in or out - merely said the commission was still meeting to decide policy.

FWIW any currency option is going to take a hit - all carry some amount of risk. My guess is they will go for a separate Scottish currency, pegged to Sterling in the short run. From a political point of view, it has that "looks right, flies right" quality, and doesn't surrender any prisoners of fortune to Westminster like the currency union did. Indeed, a currency Union with us in the EU and them out of it is illogical. However, be prepared for the push back on the complexities of setting up your own central bank, and related topics.

The currency was such a big issue in indyref1 you just know it's going to be an all out attack no matter what option is put forward. 

If the Unionists fail to get a proper hit on the currency then a big part of their argument to stay in the UK debunked.  

[Fide]

Fun fact:

Did you know that Scotland exported £5.8bn worth of utilities (electricity, water, gas) to rUK in 2015?

[Fide]

Text of motion for this week's indyref2 debate; includes call for Holyrood to set franchise and question, and Nicola Sturgeon's timetable

[Colkitto]

55 minutes ago, Fide said:

Text of motion for this week's indyref2 debate; includes call for Holyrood to set franchise and question, and Nicola Sturgeon's timetable

Kez is voting with the Tories on this one.... 

[Fide]

3 minutes ago, Colkitto said:

Kez is voting with the Tories on this one.... 

Slab clearly are itching for the day they poll in single figures.

ETA: Glorious

Edited March 20, 2017 by Fide

[Colkitto]

1 minute ago, Fide said:

Slab clearly are itching for the day they poll in single figures.

Seen a poll the other day from March 2015 that had Labour in Scotland on 28%. You have to wonder where they will be in another 2 years time or this time next year.

You can't rule out single figures even before the end of this year....

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Seen a poll the other day from March 2015 that had Labour in Scotland on 28%. You have to wonder where they will be in another 2 years time or this time next year.
You can't rule out single figures even before the end of this year....

Imagine if they fell behind the Lib Dems [emoji38]