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When will indyref2 happen?


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Indyref2  

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1 hour ago, McSpreader said:

Democracy is only really relevant at a local level. 

At National level you will never be properly represented because the constituency is too large and the issues too convoluted.

At National level the polticians are  too  removed from the electorate and so shackled to party politics that the people are not represented.

'Scotland' as an entity is not being misrepresented because there are 5million people here all with differing views, needs and desires , but it's people will always be misrepresented because our representation is fundamentally wrong  and needs to be more dynamic at a local level. You will never get that with the SNP because they will always centralise power because of their inherent need to control your life and your mindset.

What a bizarre argument.

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Odd. I a, a luddite because I don't live my entire life around my phone and downloadable apps? That doesnt even make sense FFS.
You can call me what you like but I am not the one unable to function without my phone.
 


The irony is that this started with you moaning about how the shortage of electronic bus stops meant that this country was in some kind of technological dark age relative to our friends in the Netherlands and ended with this.

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13 hours ago, oaksoft said:

In 1998 at least we weren't completely obsessed with taking selfies, tweeting what we had for breakfast and unable to function without a phone app for everything we did. What on earth you guys would do now if there was a power cut I can only guess at.

What would you do if your phone battery died and you had to catch a bus?

I'd do what I used to do and go and wait for the bus. Probably easier than firing up a PC ffs :lol:.

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14 hours ago, oaksoft said:

If you can find bus times genuinely within 3 clicks then that is only going to be possible. if you allow the phone app to know your location.

Correct?

You can save stops and get live times without using GPS. Otherwise aye, about 3 clicks using your location or an extra one without it on to the search function and a streetname or postcode typed in.

Either way you're getting the info in a fraction of time it takes to even turn on a PC.

14 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Odd. I a, a luddite because I don't live my entire life around my phone and downloadable apps? That doesnt even make sense FFS.

You can call me what you like but I am not the one unable to function without my phone.

 

Didn't say anything like that. The opposite in fact 'By all means don't get one if it's not your thing'. Don't do a McSpreader on me now.

A luddite because you have bizarre, arbitrary definitions of what technology is "for" and think it's hilarious that your son isn't relying on slower, less reliable information to reform to them.

Edited by Alan Stubbs
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Didn't say anything like that. The opposite in fact 'By all means don't get one if it's not your thing'. Don't do a McSpreader on me now.
A luddite because you have bizarre, arbitrary definitions of what technology is "for" and think it's hilarious that your son isn't relying on slower, less reliable information to reform to them.


All his son needs to do is get a bus home, fire up the PC, get the bus times, get the bus back to where he started and then catch the bus that he read about on his PC
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20 hours ago, Weesiecodal said:

Im not sure if I made my point clearly in my post? Clearly you didn't get it anyway. I was being honest about how I see things and what outcome I would like us to achieve, I wasn't patronising or criticising anyone else for having a different view. Im not here to convince anyone to vote one way or the other. I'm not fussy if you agree or disagree. Please yourself, your opinion is just as valid as mine. 

The thing about the Scottish parliament is that the voting system is far fairer than Westminster, meaning that generally, consensus is required to take things forward. So no one Party can ride roughshod over everyone else. So being telt to sit down and shut up would be less likely, and would be done with far less confidence and arrogance than the current Tory administration, who are in power for the foreseeable future. 

Its been proven in the last couple of weeks that no matter what Scotland says, it has no impact on Westminster. That won't change.

I don't see any wonderful, fabled Scottish Nirvana, and in truth, I don't know anyone who does. There are still several unanswered questions that need to be addressed before the majority opt for independence. I do however have faith in our people that we are smart enough, talented anough and determined enough to make a success of independence. 

Arguements like "it's going to be a lot harder asking the rUK to treat us any better after independence" really isn't persuasive, is it? Is that why we should remain in the UK? Should we, as "equal partners" even have to ask to be treated fairly in the first place, whether we are in or out? If you were in a relationship where you were treated like shit, would you stay because your partner would be even more of a b*****d if you dared to leave?

 "We will not be the rUK's priority"????? We aren't the rUK's priority now. We never have been, and we never will be. Is that ok with you? The block grant will be cut year on year as they privatise their NHS, and there's absolutely nothing we can do to make any difference. But we should suck it up because they might be even more nasty to us if we dare to take responsibility for ourselves? 

As I said, I'm ambivalent about EU membership. You're right that I'm expecting the UK to get a tough deal from the EU. They certainly won't get a better deal than they have now, so the only way from this starting point is down. You, nor I, nor any of the hundreds of "experts" who have been giving their opinions, positive or negative, know either. That's all they are doing.... giving their opinion. They don't know what deal UK will get, and they (or you) don't know what deal, if any, an independent Scotland would get. 

 

I actually did get your point, I was making the point that for me and many others it isn't so cut and dried.

I , personally, am not bothered that Westminster treats Sturgeon with the contempt she deserves. She clearly has no intention of engaging constructively with Westminster and  It's fair to say they aren't going to waste their time trying to placate the implacable.

Sturgeon is only interested in the ultimate goal and has sold Scotland short in pursuing that end to the detriment of everything else.

The UK is treating us the same now as it was 30 years ago with the exception of all those powers devolved to Holyrood so I suggest they aren't doing anything different that is worth getting upset about, although I can see how the SNP is changing the narrative to suit their ends. Obviously a lot of Scots are open to being persuaded that we are getting sich a raw deal all of a sudden but to me that's just horsefeathers.

I can't see any material benefit to pursuing independence over more devolved powers, certainly not until we know how Brexit pans out...What's the rush?

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I actually did get your point, I was making the point that for me and many others it isn't so cut and dried.
I , personally, am not bothered that Westminster treats Sturgeon with the contempt she deserves. She clearly has no intention of engaging constructively with Westminster and  It's fair to say they aren't going to waste their time trying to placate the implacable.
Sturgeon is only interested in the ultimate goal and has sold Scotland short in pursuing that end to the detriment of everything else.
The UK is treating us the same now as it was 30 years ago with the exception of all those powers devolved to Holyrood so I suggest they aren't doing anything different that is worth getting upset about, although I can see how the SNP is changing the narrative to suit their ends. Obviously a lot of Scots are open to being persuaded that we are getting sich a raw deal all of a sudden but to me that's just horsefeathers.
I can't see any material benefit to pursuing independence over more devolved powers, certainly not until we know how Brexit pans out...What's the rush?

This just shows you are clearly NOT getting the point.
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46 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

All his son needs to do is get a bus home, fire up the PC, get the bus times, get the bus back to where he started and then catch the bus that he read about on his PC

 

He wouldn't need to if we only had those electronic bus scoreboards that modern societies have enjoyed for decades!

He'd probably be able to use the paper one at the stance if those damned portable phones hadn't rotted his brain. Grr.

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