The Greenock Morton Thread - It's Better Than Yours

[AyrshireTon]

21 hours ago, itzdrk said:

I thought Alba didn't come on air until 4?

Both teams have presumably promised to shitfest the first half thus preventing viewers from missing anything of note.

[Rudolph Hucker]

16 hours ago, virginton said:

Well quite, What is the point of a relying on a third rate youth academy -  as it is currently earmarked for support under Project Brave's proposals - for first team squad players  at this level when there are a lorryload of such players being made available on a free transfer in every summer anyway? In what way can Morton's first team possibly stand to profit from such a setup, when there already countless other clubs with better facilities, more funding (especially after PB kicks in) and a more established track record with which to pitch for youth prospects? 

Literally following the same mythical route to the Scottish La Masia as about twenty other clubs, only a decade behind the lot of them, will only lead to mediocrity, We've had plenty of that already. 

 

So, in a nutshell:  damned when they didn't, damned even more when they do.

Helpful.

[Branch Ton]

Bit of muddled thinking here champ..

We rely on the cast offs from other teams’ youth academies in order to build a Morton team  capable of getting to the top tier and staying there.  Those cast offs have to compete against their betters who were retained by the breeder clubs  champ so how does that theory work? You going to resurrect Hal Stewart or engage any army of scouts to watch all those academy teams we won’t be playing against?

 

[vikingTON]

On 12/5/2017 at 09:12, Rudolph Hucker said:

So, in a nutshell:  damned when they didn't, damned even more when they do.

Helpful.

Try reading for the purpose of comprehension next time, moron.

[vikingTON]

29 minutes ago, Branch Ton said:

Bit of muddled thinking here champ..

We rely on the cast offs from other teams’ youth academies in order to build a Morton team  capable of getting to the top tier and staying there.  Those cast offs have to compete against their betters who were retained by the breeder clubs  champ so how does that theory work?

 

Michael Tidser and Chris Millar did not have to compete against successful Celtic academy graduates at this level, because err, Celtic and other top tier sides do not play at this level. Ditto Peter MacDonald, who didn't need to play against Alan Hutton at this level to regularly score 15-20 goals per season. Swing and a miss, chump.  

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You going to resurrect Hal Stewart or engage any army of scouts to watch all those academy teams we won’t be playing against?

Well quite - Hal Stewart should indeed be one of the examples that GMFC should look to from their own history : a pioneer in discovering a new pool of talent in the Scandinavian market that transformed both Morton's fortunes and the Scottish game as a whole. Ditto a certain Douglas Rae when, as a younger and much more imaginative board member, secured Lindberg and Rajamaki from the obscure Finnish market to a Second Division club in order to spearhead the competitive team of the mid-90s. Scottish football clubs have access to a huge market of professional footballers across Europe and can offer extremely competitive wages by the standards of their European peers. 

That is where the competitive advantage lies for GMFC: not in a third-rate youth setup, based on a back of a fag packet delusion that the club will become the next Hamilton, only much better at Hamilton's M.O. for no discernible reason whatsoever.

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

19 minutes ago, virginton said:

Try reading for the purpose of comprehension next time, moron.

I did, champ. Hence my post.

Do try to keep up.

[Finch road]

33 minutes ago, virginton said:

Michael Tidser and Chris Millar did not have to compete against successful Celtic academy graduates at this level, because err, Celtic and other top tier sides do not play at this level. Ditto Peter MacDonald, who didn't need to play against Alan Hutton at this level to regularly score 15-20 goals per season. Swing and a miss, chump.  

Well quite - Hal Stewart should indeed be one of the examples that GMFC should look to from their own history : a pioneer in discovering a new pool of talent in the Scandinavian market that transformed both Morton's fortunes and the Scottish game as a whole. Ditto a certain Douglas Rae when, as a younger and much more imaginative board member, secured Lindberg and Rajamaki from the obscure Finnish market to a Second Division club in order to spearhead the competitive team of the mid-90s. Scottish football clubs have access to a huge market of professional footballers across Europe and can offer extremely competitive wages by the standards of their European peers. 

That is where the competitive advantage lies for GMFC: not in a third-rate youth setup, based on a back of a fag packet delusion that the club will become the next Hamilton, only much better at Hamilton's M.O. for no discernible reason whatsoever.

 

Not scouting the eastern Europe and Scandinavian market is criminal. Roll on the days of a forward thinking board 

[Branch Ton]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

Michael Tidser and Chris Millar did not have to compete against successful Celtic academy graduates at this level, because err, Celtic and other top tier sides do not play at this level. Ditto Peter MacDonald, who didn't need to play against Alan Hutton at this level to regularly score 15-20 goals per season. Swing and a miss, chump.  

Well quite - Hal Stewart should indeed be one of the examples that GMFC should look to from their own history : a pioneer in discovering a new pool of talent in the Scandinavian market that transformed both Morton's fortunes and the Scottish game as a whole. Ditto a certain Douglas Rae when, as a younger and much more imaginative board member, secured Lindberg and Rajamaki from the obscure Finnish market to a Second Division club in order to spearhead the competitive team of the mid-90s. Scottish football clubs have access to a huge market of professional footballers across Europe and can offer extremely competitive wages by the standards of their European peers. 

That is where the competitive advantage lies for GMFC: not in a third-rate youth setup, based on a back of a fag packet delusion that the club will become the next Hamilton, only much better at Hamilton's M.O. for no discernible reason whatsoever.

 

I see,  so you think we should be going after only SPL youth cast offs like Luke Donnelly, Shankland etc. Smart thinking champ.

You don’t seem to have a constructive business model to replace our current one. Just a desire to rubbish the youth structure and a tendency to wet your knickers at the extent of our debt to Dougie.

The Danes and Linberg were not exactly plucked from the depths of obscurity. The reason we secured their services was because we offered a better remuneration  package which included signing on fees, (some as compensation for loss of amateur status) accommodation, flights back home etc. What we pay now is nowhere near what most of these guys got which is why we have only been able to attract dross from Eastern Europe in recent times. Someone who can commute daily is likely to accept our average wage offer than someone who has to relocate. 

 

[vikingTON]

On 12/6/2017 at 18:13, Rudolph Hucker said:

I did, champ. Hence my post.

Do try to keep up.

No you didn't; hence your gormless attempt at a response.

Better luck next time champ. 

23 hours ago, Branch Ton said:

I see,  so you think we should be going after only SPL youth cast offs like Luke Donnelly, Shankland etc. Smart thinking champ.

 

'Cast offs' that also include Peter MacDonald, Michael Tidser and Chris Millar within recent Morton sides alone,. As well as the scores of similar 'cast offs' who were instrumental to getting the likes of Ross County promoted to the top flight, where they have stayed quite comfortably for years. 

 So yes, smart thinking indeed: and much smarter than filling your squad with the output of a third rate youth system and hoping for anything other than third rate results. 

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You don’t seem to have a constructive business model to replace our current one. Just a desire to rubbish the youth structure and a tendency to wet your knickers at the extent of our debt to Dougie.

GMFC does not have a credible business model, and last time I checked they were the custodians tasked with building one. 

The so-called 'rubbishing of the youth structure' was in fact confirmed by the SFA, when - based largely on objective facts - they filed Morton's setup among the third tier also-rans of Scottish football.  With funding, coaching talent and other resources in the youth game being consciously diverted towards the elite, the case for Morton focusing its efforts on youth development has been shot to pieces.  

But still, so long a club director can put some check against the Football Manager regens appearing on our subs' bench each week then that's what really counts.

Quote

The Danes and Linberg were not exactly plucked from the depths of obscurity.

Erm yes they quite clearly were: that is why Morton were the first team in Scotland to move into the Scandinavian market. 

Quote

The reason we secured their services was because we offered a better remuneration  package which included signing on fees, (some as compensation for loss of amateur status) accommodation, flights back home etc. What we pay now is nowhere near what most of these guys got which is why we have only been able to attract dross from Eastern Europe in recent times. Someone who can commute daily is likely to accept our average wage offer than someone who has to relocate. 

This is complete and utter nonsense. Morton have more resources at their disposal now - through eye-watering gate prices and a far more generous prize money settlement - than they had either when jobbing around a shan second tier of Scottish football in the 1960s, or when playing in the Second Division in 94-95. Morton, like most clubs in the division, have a far higher turnover than their counterparts abroad: Scottish match attendances are higher, and Scottish fans pay 3-4 times more per head than their counterparts in similar sized countries throughout much of Europe.  The club does not of course unlimited resources, but the issue is how they are being used rather than being a case of actual poverty.

Edited December 7, 2017 by vikingTON

[LargsTON]

I see,  so you think we should be going after only SPL youth cast offs like Luke Donnelly, Shankland etc. Smart thinking champ.
You don’t seem to have a constructive business model to replace our current one. Just a desire to rubbish the youth structure and a tendency to wet your knickers at the extent of our debt to Dougie.
The Danes and Linberg were not exactly plucked from the depths of obscurity. The reason we secured their services was because we offered a better remuneration  package which included signing on fees, (some as compensation for loss of amateur status) accommodation, flights back home etc. What we pay now is nowhere near what most of these guys got which is why we have only been able to attract dross from Eastern Europe in recent times. Someone who can commute daily is likely to accept our average wage offer than someone who has to relocate. 
 

What kind of money were the Finns on? I know they were both given free accommodation and a car each but do you know their weekly wage?

[Branch Ton]

Well that an omnishambles, dogs bolocks of a response that is. We didn’t sign either Peaso or Tidser from their first clubs. 

The youth academy rejects we otherwise picked up included Donnelly, Shankland, McManus and Nesbitt  who all found it difficult to cope with your adulation and moved on.  McManus and Nesbitt turned us down for better money elsewhere. Gardyne who moved on to Ross County did so because he too felt your love. 

When Ross County were building their squad we did not have a Youth Acadamy both they and us would both have been in competition.  

For someone who is forever wetting his knickers at the size of our £2m debt your comment about the resources at our disposal is laughable. You don’t seem to be aware that the club is being prepared for sale. The drive for sustainability is part of that process as is the IT etc updates and the establishment of a youth academy. 

Keep barking at the moon champ. 

 

 

[LargsTON]

Well that an omnishambles, dogs bolocks of a response that is. We didn’t sign either Peaso or Tidser from their first clubs. 
The youth academy rejects we otherwise picked up included Donnelly, Shankland, McManus and Nesbitt  who all found it difficult to cope with your adulation and moved on.  McManus and Nesbitt turned us down for better money elsewhere. Gardyne who moved on to Ross County did so because he too felt your love. 
When Ross County were building their squad we did not have a Youth Acadamy both they and us would both have been in competition.  
For someone who is forever wetting his knickers at the size of our £2m debt your comment about the resources at our disposal is laughable. You don’t seem to be aware that the club is being prepared for sale. The drive for sustainability is part of that process as is the IT etc updates and the establishment of a youth academy. 
Keep barking at the moon champ. 
 
 

The sooner the Raes sell the better then as that debt will only rise.

[vikingTON]

8 minutes ago, Branch Ton said:

Well that an omnishambles, dogs bolocks of a response that is. We didn’t sign either Peaso or Tidser from their first clubs. 

 

And? Peter MacDonald was a Rangers 'cast off', who dropped down a division and had an excellent career. I think I'd rather have him in any Morton squad than hoping that reserve league hotshots like, erm, Thomas Orr will cut it above the level of East Stirling and Cumbernauld Colts. 

Swing and a miss.

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When Ross County were building their squad we did not have a Youth Acadamy both they and us would both have been in competition.  

Yeah, this sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. 

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For someone who is forever wetting his knickers at the size of our £2m debt your comment about the resources at our disposal is laughable. You don’t seem to be aware that the club is being prepared for sale. The drive for sustainability is part of that process as is the IT etc updates and the establishment of a youth academy. 

Absolutely none of those things change the objective facts that Morton have a far larger turnover than they did when actually sourcing excellent players from untapped markets in the 1960s, and again in the 1990s, and that Morton can offer wages that contemporary footballers in much of Europe could only dream of. 

Quote

Keep barking at the moon champ. 

Stop drooling over your keyboard and switch the computer off at the mains, thanks. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by vikingTON

[Branch Ton]

16 minutes ago, LargsTON said:

 

What kind of money were the Finns on? I know they were both given free accommodation and a car each but do you know their weekly wage?

 

Not sure but I think the deal with Mypa was reported to have cost us £250k

[Branch Ton]

15 hours ago, virginton said:

And? Peter MacDonald was a Rangers 'cast off', who dropped down a division and had an excellent career. I think I'd rather have him in any Morton squad than hoping that reserve league hotshots like, erm, Thomas Orr will cut it above the level of East Stirling and Cumbernauld Colts. 

Swing and a miss.

Yeah, this sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. 

Absolutely none of those things change the objective facts that Morton have a far larger turnover than they did when actually sourcing excellent players from untapped markets in the 1960s, and again in the 1990s, and that Morton can offer wages that contemporary footballers in much of Europe could only dream of. 

Stop drooling over your keyboard and switch the computer off at the mains, thanks. 

The Ranger’s cast off actually cost St Johnstone over £100k. Not sure what point you are making with this, are you saying we should be looking to fill our team with old pros at the end of their careers when their knees are knackered? We have used the old pro model for years and it got us nowhere.  It is also clear that JD focuses on youth and fitness in his signing policy 

Some of the knackered old pros we have signed over the years, many of whom returned to Inverclyde , could have been ours from day 1 if we had had  a youth academy. There has been whole host of other local players over the years who built careers elsewhere and again could have been ours had we had had a youth set up. 

Lindberg's wikipedia page confirms we paid Mypa £250k. The Danes didn’t come cheap either, we had the advantage of being able to “compensate” some for loss of amateur status,  and in those days we had the backing and facilities of Sir Wm Lithgow.  As for now it’s absolute nonsense to ignore the competition from other European countries for Eastern European players. Looking forward to your paper on how, post Brexit and the end of freedom of movement, Scottish clubs get visas and work permits for Eastern European dross.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Branch Ton
Typo

[tonnitus]

10 hours ago, Branch Ton said:

Gardyne who moved on to Ross County did so because he too felt your love. 

Gardyne was shite for us, McInally didn't have a clue what to do with him. I'd imagine that didn't help the case for him signing for us.

[AyrshireTon]

16 hours ago, LargsTON said:

 

The sooner the Raes sell the better then as that debt will only rise.

 

How will the Raes leaving help the stop the debt rising?

[LargsTON]

How will the Raes leaving help the stop the debt rising?

Well you'd have to imagine anyone coming in will have a better business model than the current back of a fag packet plan being peddled out by the Raes. He's had over 15 years at it which by and large has been an unmitigated disaster. From wasting money on the St Mirren stand to spending £150,000 on Templeman he's squandered literally hundreds of thousands of pounds not to mention driving away many fans while slowly eroding all the initial goodwill he'd built up.

Unless we're lumbered with another Hugh Scott figure (whom I doubt Rae would sell to) their departure can only be a good thing as the apathy currently surrounding the club is the worst I can ever recall.

I'm desperate for Rae to sell up as we're suffocating and it's painful to watch.

[AyrshireTon]

1 hour ago, LargsTON said:

 

Well you'd have to imagine anyone coming in will have a better business model than the current back of a fag packet plan being peddled out by the Raes. He's had over 15 years at it which by and large has been an unmitigated disaster. From wasting money on the St Mirren stand to spending £150,000 on Templeman he's squandered literally hundreds of thousands of pounds not to mention driving away many fans while slowly eroding all the initial goodwill he'd built up.
 

 

Fair enough.

My worry is that a business model based on not running up debt with our present crowd sizes would involve going part time.

[IainMorton]

On to different matters, does anyone know why the away end in the Shed isn’t being used? Another waste of money from Morton and they may as well put the segregation barrier into storage along with the roof and seats we bought a few years back from our good friends down the road.