RandomGuy. Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 The draws are done at the same time though, so the winner of that first round tie between seeded and unseeded team will have the seeded team's ranking in the second round draw regardless. True enough, forgot about the whole rankings been taken by the victors scenario tbh. FWIW I know Levski Sofia are in the Bulgarian Cup Final, and they have a better ranking than us. If thats a starting point for figuring anything out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 FWIW I know Levski Sofia are in the Bulgarian Cup Final, and they have a better ranking than us. If thats a starting point for figuring anything out. They lost the final to Cherno More Varna today, who only have a coefficient of 3.350, so will be unseeded. The two league places in Bulgaria, decided tomorrow, are between Beroe (4.850), Lovech (6.850) and Lokomotiv Sofia (4.350). All three play different teams in their top six. There are three seeded spots available to us, with several teams still able to qualify that can better our coefficient of 6.080, one of whom is Sturm Graz (9.135) of Austria, currently in pole position for their final spot and play their last game tomorrow. In Poland, there are two rounds of fixtures left and to be honest, it's quite hard to explain the situation as all is still to play for but realistically, two of the three seeded spots are going to go here. Outside chance of only one might but unlikely. That probably doesn't make much sense but it will all be much clearer after tomorrow. I'd be very surprised if all the results we need go our way, despite the favourable result in the Bulgarian Cup final today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 They lost the final to Cherno More Varna today, who only have a coefficient of 3.350, so will be unseeded. The two league places in Bulgaria, decided tomorrow, are between Beroe (4.850), Lovech (6.850) and Lokomotiv Sofia (4.350). All three play different teams in their top six. There are three seeded spots available to us, with several teams still able to qualify that can better our coefficient of 6.080, one of whom is Sturm Graz (9.135) of Austria, currently in pole position for their final spot and play their last game tomorrow. In Poland, there are two rounds of fixtures left and to be honest, it's quite hard to explain the situation as all is still to play for but realistically, two of the three seeded spots are going to go here. Outside chance of only one might but unlikely. That probably doesn't make much sense but it will all be much clearer after tomorrow. I'd be very surprised if all the results we need go our way, despite the favourable result in the Bulgarian Cup final today. Excellent news! Have no idea why I'd stumbled onto the news about the Bulgarian Cup Final (think I was figuring out where Bojinov was) but it stuck with me for whatever reason. Hoping we can be seeded for the Second Round, what sort of difference would it realistically make though? Is the difference between seeded and unseeded sides all that large? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I think we need to be looking at the group stages. We have enough European experience now that we should know how to approach this campaign. I think we've learnt something every year and just need to take that forward. In 2012 we probably showed an admittedly good side too much respect and were underprepared, in 2013 we weren't streetwise enough and last year having a home leg first caught us cold and one bad half of football in eight did for us. We are as best prepared as we've been going into next season and there shouldn't be too many surprises for us. Of course we may need a little bit of fortune with the draw but we've got enough about us to be viewing this as more than just a welcome distraction now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Absolutely class that we are back in Europe again. It's a privilege to be part of the glory years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perthsaint1977 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Hopefully the draw is kind to us in that we get a relatively close and small club in round one and then a winnable team in round two. Ideally like every other season, want the away game first so we can bring the tie alive back to mcdiarmid park and get good numbers in the stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fife Saint Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I think we need to be looking at the group stages. We have enough European experience now that we should know how to approach this campaign. I think we've learnt something every year and just need to take that forward. In 2012 we probably showed an admittedly good side too much respect and were underprepared, in 2013 we weren't streetwise enough and last year having a home leg first caught us cold and one bad half of football in eight did for us.We are as best prepared as we've been going into next season and there shouldn't be too many surprises for us. Of course we may need a little bit of fortune with the draw but we've got enough about us to be viewing this as more than just a welcome distraction now. Agree with this but are the group of players as talented as the previous bunch? Not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Pack Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Definitely missing both the first leg ties, hopefully can manage 1 at least if we make the second round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Games going on the moment that are relevant to us. Slightly wrong with that I posted last night about Sturm Graz, we want them to finish third and go in at QR3 but results going against them at the moment. In Bulgaria, Lovech are losing which is good but need Lokomotiv Sofia to get a goal. This is the final day over there. Games finished in Poland today and league now looks beyond Jagiellonia, who will go into the Europa League but will be unseeded. Might all become clear in the next hour or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Sturm Graz will come in at QR2 so take one of the three remaining seeded spots. Bulgaria looking positive, so all may rest on Poland next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 It feels strange yet so homely and comfortable to back in this section. Thought I may never be here again. Right, Airbus UK please. Game likely to be at Rhyl or preferably Chester. That'll be a splendid day out from Manchesterland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Three Bulgarian places were available this weekend and all three have gone to sides with a lower coefficient than Saints. There are the same number of places to go to Poland, one of them will go to Jagiellonia with a lower coefficient and one will go to either Legia Warsaw or Lech Poznan with a higher one. So I think if the team that finishes fourth in Poland has a lower coefficient, we will be seeded. Of the three teams that can get fourth, only Lechia in fifth have the lower coefficient. Bert Kassies usually updates quite quickly, so it should make more sense then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 See if we'd beaten FC Minsk at home two years ago this wouldn't be an issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramer Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Lokomotiv Sofia don't have a license so Litex Lovech have taken their european spot and are ranked above you. With 3 ranked spots remaining you'll need everything to go your way. FC Salzburg to beat Austria Vienna in the Austrian Cup, Jagiellonia to remain in 3rd and Lechia to move into 4th in the Polish League. I can see you ending up the top Unseeded team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Sturm Graz will come in at QR2 so take one of the three remaining seeded spots. Bulgaria looking positive, so all may rest on Poland next week. If Red Bull Salzburg win the cup in midweek then Sturm Graz will move up to QR3 and the unseeded Wolfsberger AC would take their place in QR2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I've had the chance to have a proper look at it, and here's what I think the situation is. 60 of the 66 teams for the QR2 draw have been locked in. There are 6 spaces still up for grabs. The top 33 teams will be seeded. Of the 60 who are already in place, St Johnstone are currently ranked 30th. St Johnstone will be seeded if at least 3 of the remaining 6 clubs who qualify have a coefficient lower than 6.080. The spots which are still to be decided are as follows: Switzerland - 1 spot Switzerland's lowest ranked qualifier will enter QR2. This spot will be decided by the outcome of the Swiss Cup final next Sunday between Basel and Sion. If Basel win the cup, then St Johnstone's old pals, 5th placed Luzern, will enter QR2. Their coefficient is 9.875. If Sion win the cup, then 4th placed FC Thun will enter QR2. Their coefficient is 10.375. In other words, whichever of these sides end up in QR2 will be ranked above St Johnstone and will be seeded. Greece - 1 spot Greece's lowest ranked qualifier will enter QR2. This spot will be decided by the outcome of their European play-off group - whoever finishes 4th (and bottom) in the group will enter this round. With 2 matches remaining (on Thursday and Monday), three clubs could still qualify: Asteras Tripoli are currently 2nd on 6 points. Their coefficient is 13.380. PAOK are currently 3rd on 5 points. Their coefficient is 40.880. Atromitos are currently 4th on 4 points. Their coefficient is 10.380. Again, this means that whichever Greek side ends up in QR2 will be seeded above St Johnstone. Austria - 1 spot Austria's lowest ranked side will enter QR2. This will be decided by the Austrian Cup final on Wednesday between Red Bull Salzburg and Austria Vienna. If Red Bull Salzburg win the cup, then 5th placed Wolfsberger AC will enter QR2. Their coefficient is 5.135. If Austria Vienna win the cup, then 4th placed Sturm Graz will enter QR2. Their coefficient is 9.135. St Johnstone therefore obviously want Red Bull Salzburg to win the cup, because Saints would be ranked ahead of Wolfsberger AC. Poland - 3 spots This is by far the most complex country remaining. Poland's top ranked side will enter QR2, while their 2nd and 3rd ranked sides will enter QR1, but will be seeded in QR1 and will therefore also take up a place in the QR2 draw. That means that Poland still have 3 places in total which affect St Johnstone's seeding. These will go to the clubs finishing 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the Polish league. There are 2 matches remaining in the league, which will be played on Wednesday and Saturday. 7 clubs can still qualify for the Europa League: Lech Poznan are currently top of the league with 39 points. Their coefficient is 17.300. Legia Warsaw are currently 2nd with 38 points. Their coefficient is 24.800. Jagiellonia Bialystok are currently 3rd with 35 points. Their coefficient is 5.550. Slask Wroclaw are currently 4th with 29 points. Their coefficient is 8.800. Lechia Gdansk are currently 5th with 28 points. Their coefficient is 4.300. Wisla Krakow are currently 6th with 27 points. Their coefficient is 13.300. Gornik Zabrze are currently 7th with 26 points. Their coefficient is 4.300. Lech Poznan, Legia Warsaw and Jagiellonia Bialystok are all guaranteed a spot in Europe for next season. One of them will win the league and qualify for the Champions League, while the other two will end up in the Europa League. Therefore at least one of Lech Poznan or Legia Warsaw will be in the Europa League QR2 draw and will be ranked above St Johnstone. St Johnstone are hoping that Jagiellonia don't win the league, and that either Lechia Gdansk or Gornik Zabrze finish 4th. Summary Three sides are guaranteed to be ranked above St Johnstone - one from Switzerland, one from Greece and one from Poland. For St Johnstone to be seeded in QR2, they need each of the other three spots to be taken by sides ranked below them. That means they need the following outcomes: Red Bull Salzburg beat Austria Vienna in the Austrian Cup final. Jagiellonia Bialystok don't win the Polish league (and therefore finish 2nd or 3rd). Lechia Gdansk or Gornik Zabrze finish 4th in Poland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Have we actually ever beaten anyone when we've been seeded? I doubt we were when we beat Vaasa as we hadn't qualified for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Have we actually ever beaten anyone when we've been seeded? I doubt we were when we beat Vaasa as we hadn't qualified for decades. Suspect we would have been as Portadown were potential opponents and surely wouldn't have been? Great work by Craig above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Suspect we would have been as Portadown were potential opponents and surely wouldn't have been? Just checked and they were in Europe 6 times in the 90's so they might have been actually. In true Saints style, it appears we do better as unseeded though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Think it's very ambitious to say we should be looking to the group stages. We haven't even made a play-off yet and that's when the big guns come in. And that's after maybe having to get past teams of Rosenburg's and Luzern's stature. I think we should be looking to make the play-offs at least and hope for a kind draw. Then the dream of the group stages can come alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.