DOA Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 But teams in Ayrshire season didn't finish until June and 3weeks off so where do goI think you re asking the wrong question.Should you not be asking WHY these teams did not finish until June? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantownfc Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Iam a HUGE fan of summer football , my club Grantown fc have played 1 league game in last 2 months due to the weather and that was away. We had a friendly yesterday v Forres Mechanics just to get a game it was on a all weather pitch and even it was in a pretty bad state https://twitter.com/Grantownfc/status/561856857908981760 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOA Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Of course there's been a decline in Junior attendances, but by and large it's proportionate to the decline in football attendances across the board. We're living in a time when there are more alternative ways for people to spend their free time than probably any point in history. Summer football sounds good when you talk about it in the depths of winter, but I suspect any upturn in crowds would be minimal and temporary - the majority of people who don't go to games would find another excuse not to go other than the weather. Bottom line is a lot of so-called football fans haven't been inside a ground in years, and get their fix sitting on their arse watching scrolling results on a Saturday afternoon rather than watching a game on their doorstep. Speaking for my own team, it's frustrating having about 100 on a good day through the gate when every pub up and down Maryhill Road is stowed with punters with more interest in how Hull are doing against Stoke than us - or indeed in Thistle a mile down the road. A couple of points which I raised in one of the previous threads on the same subject which I don't think anyone's mentioned yet on this one - first, good luck pulling punters through the doors on alternate years when either the World Cup or European Championship is on over the summer, and more importantly, we already have a winter break in de facto terms, with the bonus that most weeks there still will be games on somewhere. Yesterday, it was a no-brainer that our game was off, so I headed down the coast to see Whitletts v Saltcoats. At the moment, there will be a game on somewhere 48 weeks of the year, whereas with a summer season there would be 12 weeks with nothing on guaranteed... Of course there's been a decline in Junior attendances, but by and large it's proportionate to the decline in football attendances across the board. We're living in a time when there are more alternative ways for people to spend their free time than probably any point in history. Summer football sounds good when you talk about it in the depths of winter, but I suspect any upturn in crowds would be minimal and temporary - the majority of people who don't go to games would find another excuse not to go other than the weather. Bottom line is a lot of so-called football fans haven't been inside a ground in years, and get their fix sitting on their arse watching scrolling results on a Saturday afternoon rather than watching a game on their doorstep. Speaking for my own team, it's frustrating having about 100 on a good day through the gate when every pub up and down Maryhill Road is stowed with punters with more interest in how Hull are doing against Stoke than us - or indeed in Thistle a mile down the road. A couple of points which I raised in one of the previous threads on the same subject which I don't think anyone's mentioned yet on this one - first, good luck pulling punters through the doors on alternate years when either the World Cup or European Championship is on over the summer, and more importantly, we already have a winter break in de facto terms, with the bonus that most weeks there still will be games on somewhere. Yesterday, it was a no-brainer that our game was off, so I headed down the coast to see Whitletts v Saltcoats. At the moment, there will be a game on somewhere 48 weeks of the year, whereas with a summer season there would be 12 weeks with nothing on guaranteed...I think you make a good point in favour of summer fitba by saying"there will be a game on somewhere 48 weeks of the year".Methinks you really want year long fit a with no close season at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I think you make a good point in favour of summer fitba by saying"there will be a game on somewhere 48 weeks of the year".Methinks you really want year long fit a with no close season at all! Well, yeah, to an extent. I just don't see the point in legislating three or four months where there'll be nothing on whatsoever. Of course it's frustrating when games are called off at this time of the year - we've not had a game on since 29th November FFS! - but I've still caught a game every weekend since then. Bear in mind towards the end of the season, there's never a full card of games on - the leagues will still finish up in time like they do every year unless there's the odd side that's had a long run in a lot of cups like Shotts did a couple of years ago for example, and it'll just be the latter stages of the local cups etc still going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Are you talking about Scottish football overall or the Juniors? If the former - that's simply incorrect. That's simply incorrect - they fell for 3 seasons running, rose slightly for 3 seasons without recovering to the original level, then have fallen for 5 seasons running... Their clubs voted 12-9 to ask the FAI to change back (tbf they refused). EDIT: Also my understanding is the equivalent of non-league/Junior football is Eire stayed-put, e.g. the Munster League, North Tipperary League, Waterford League, Limerick JL, Clare JL, Kerry JL, etc. all seem to operate August-May. On the first point, the raw numbers that get printed in the newspapers don't necessarily tell the whole story in terms of how many people are actually showing up for games. Does anyone seriously believe that Celtic still average over 45,000 spectators per game, for example? On the last point, I know for a fact that the Ulster Senior League (Donegal teams only, so the name is a bit grandiose) plays in the summer, which despite the senior part of the name is broadly comparable to junior football in Scotland in status terms, so I suspect you may be being selective in what you are choosing to highlight. Think it would be a major mistake to go for a March to November sort of format, but a midwinter shutdown from just after New Year to early Feb and going for an earlier start in July is well worth considering, especially when junior clubs don't have the ground staff and finances needed to keep grounds playable in an era when referees are much more likely to call games off than they used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Crowds outwith the OF are in a generally good state, with most clubs growing their crowds in recent years - and there is no evidence of a change in reporting methods at the OF either. If people are paying for a ticket then the club has the income anyway. Ultimately the point is that "crowds are falling" is not a broad or consistent feature despite it being a popular claim. I wasn't being selective... I wouldn't have realised the Ulster League wasn't in NI anyway. I used the links from the website of the Munster Senior League and the North Tipperary League (the first leagues I found in the listings on Wikipedia at the respective levels), and every other league I opened appear to be mid-way through a standard August-May season, at least at adult level. Not suggesting this is universal - but on that basis I would have no reason to assume that it isn't prevalent. I also recall reading about issues with clubs joining the former A Championship: when clubs came in or dropped out they often had to play in 2 leagues at the same time or effectively mothball the club, due to moving between a November finish and an August start, or a May finish and a March start. That would be an issue for the Juniors in connection with the pyramid, btw. Having an extended winter break sounds a nice idea, but how do you know the bad weather will strike in January? That's the difficulty. It could end-up being a mild January and a bad February. If so, you'd have wasted playable weekends, and unnecessarily prolonged any period without income. I happen to have been reading the HL Centenary history recently, and they introduced a winter break sometime during the 1980s. It only lasted a couple of seasons and latterly the Inverness area clubs organised competitive matches during the 'break' out of frustration at the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John and the dug Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 KR10, Have given any thought to the fact that Its always been this way, no point in changing now. What about hard pitches in the summer, some folk will have the bowling. Why run the risk of having games played every week when it's more exciting to play one game in two months in the winter and three a week in May. Have you even considered the health risks of playing or watching in the summer sun, less risk associated with playing in a storm when it's dark at quarter past three and your struggling to see the far end of the pitch. You may like to know what you're doing on a Saturday but many people on here enjoy waiting till half tenish each Saturday to find out if there game will be on or not, I could go on but can I suggest you put a bit more thought into it posting nonsense like this.Great post.Illustrates how much of a farce it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Are you talking about Scottish football overall or the Juniors? If the former - that's simply incorrect. That's simply incorrect - they fell for 3 seasons running, rose slightly for 3 seasons without recovering to the original level, then have fallen for 5 seasons running... Their clubs voted 12-9 to ask the FAI to change back (tbf they refused). EDIT: Also my understanding is the equivalent of non-league/Junior football is Eire stayed-put, e.g. the Munster League, North Tipperary League, Waterford League, Limerick JL, Clare JL, Kerry JL, etc. all seem to operate August-May. How long is it to Tipperary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRoyGuy Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Iam a HUGE fan of summer football , my club Grantown fc have played 1 league game in last 2 months due to the weather and that was away. We had a friendly yesterday v Forres Mechanics just to get a game it was on a all weather pitch and even it was in a pretty bad state https://twitter.com/Grantownfc/status/561856857908981760 A love your badge !! Just had to say that ... Thanks !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithgierose Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 summer fitba in fauldhoose no way lol aye,you couldnae fix aw the games into the first two weeks in july Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loughal Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 But teams in Ayrshire season didn't finish until June and 3weeks off so where do go That's probably correct. But, what about the teams that their season ended early May 7/8 weeks before? Summer football would guarantee in a 16 team league 30 fixtures. Add cup ties and a minimum program of around 36/40 games would be fine. It was said somewhere last season you would need a calculator to work out league positions, along with promotion and relegation situation. Two seasons ago one team had completed all their fixtures mid April apart from having qualified for the EVENING TIMES CHAMPIONS TROPHY' They waited 6/7 weeks to get this last fixture over. How many weeks has R4 run with only six ties completed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Yet again all the proponents of summer football conveniently forget the need for a summer break to give grass pitches time in summer to recover/be restored to playing condition before a new winter season. Unless 100% commitment to artificial pitches is also part of the proposal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilsyth Coyle Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Can't believe I'm getting involved in this debate, but it's complete common sense, the whole issue. Summer football can only provide us with a better product on the pitch. You only need to compare some of the games at beginning and end of the current seasons. On better pitches, played in better weather, provides for more exciting games at a higher standard!!! Sure the players would also agree!!! The grass pitches are in top order over the summer period! Not because they arn't being played on, but because the climate is perfect for them to continue growing. Don't forget the amount of sunlight / daylight to allow a pitch to grow and repair between games. I'm no expert, or greenkeeper, but you only have to see how often the golf courses are being cut in the summer time, for example. They're being used on a daily basis for longer periods of time over the summer compared to winter months, and still stay in top order over the summer! Summer time gives a far better all round experience for the supporters / spectators involved in the junior game. If the weather is cold, wet n windy etc or reasonably warm and dry, I think it's common sense to say that a few more supporters or even neutrals will take in a match. We live in a modern society, where families tend to go away on holidays now all throughout the year. So you can't even submise a drop in revenue from a reduced crowd over the main summer period. People will always be around to watch football, no matter what the time of year! Maybe a few more fans from the senior game will take in junior games to get their football fix over their close season?? This could give local clubs a small lift in revenue?? It's time for the junior game to show the rest of the football fraternity in Scotland, that by modernising and moving with the times, by changing to a summer schedule of football can lift the overall game!!!! Summer footy all the way for me!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loughal Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Kilsyth Coyle; You sum it up perfectly. I can assure you though, that nothing will be allowed to interfere with administrations bowling. Stuff the football we are only in it for the cash. Give it a few weeks and that summer football mob will forget all about it. Bet you not one club put a motion in for the AGM to consider. Then again that would interfere with the boozing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior_Arab Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I think, on balance, I'm probably pro summer football. There would be problems with it (personally, I think the issues with getting a decent pre season in, and rescheduling games that are postponed after September would be the main ones), but does anyone honestly believe that if we were starting now from scratch we would go for what we have now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOA Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Came to the conclusion years ago that consideration for the paying customer comes below consideration for administrators ,committees,players etc. Anybody who says that junior football is semi-pro is deluding themselves. If it really was the customer would come first.Had a look at the crowd at our game on Sat.A big majority was over 60 I would say.Wondered then what would happen when these people can't come to games.The conclusion I came to was that junior football will be dead in 15-20 years if there isn't radical change now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clash city rocker Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The biggest anti summer fitba issue is the folk that run junior clubs.The vast majority of clubs are amateur in all but name and games being postponed in Winter doesn't really affect them as their wage budget/running costs are not very high unlike the top clubs who need steady income from games.The last time it was raised at a meeting it never even got to the debating stage.Only the supporters by voting at their own clubs agm and making the club adopt a Summer fitba stance will anything change...the people running the clubs will not go for Summer fitba,you will have to make them... and when you consider that many clubs don't issue season tickets don't interact with the little support they have,the chances of Summer fitba are almost zero.In defence of Tom Johnston for once a don't believe he is against the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOA Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The biggest anti summer fitba issue is the folk that run junior clubs.The vast majority of clubs are amateur in all but name and games being postponed in Winter doesn't really affect them as their wage budget/running costs are not very high unlike the top clubs who need steady income from games.The last time it was raised at a meeting it never even got to the debating stage.Only the supporters by voting at their own clubs agm and making the club adopt a Summer fitba stance will anything change...the people running the clubs will not go for Summer fitba,you will have to make them... and when you consider that many clubs don't issue season tickets don't interact with the little support they have,the chances of Summer fitba are almost zero.In defence of Tom Johnston for once a don't believe he is against the idea.I agree with everything you say there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Weeks without games strangles the finances of clubs as the players need to get paid and there is little or no income. Also trying to get indoor training facilities is very difficult. Definitely time to give it a try at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fife Journeyman Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Dont see the harm in giving it a try for 2-3 seasons, If it doesnt work you can always go back We wil never know unless we give it a go. Pitches wont need much maintenanace as they will be in decent condition, Pre season training may be an issue but players are kept ticking over in the winter just now with postponment of games. nothing better than watching a junior game on a midweek night in decent weather and you will attract a few senior supporters and there isnt much football on the tele every second season. start of March til end of October gives you around 34 weeks, play a game evrery second midweek June/July/August and there are plenty room for fixtures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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