Ever been a scab or even thought about it?

[Supras]

Except that isn't what he's saying. It's clearly people who complain about having no money (or not being able to afford to lose a small proportion of a monthly wage) but choose to spend on non-essential, nice to have items that are attracting his ire.

Well, quite, but people just like to moan. Regardless of their income some groups of people will always complain about being skint.

If I was in that position, I'd make it clear that I wasn't going to strike that day, but I wasn't doing it because I couldn't afford to.

[Audaces Fortuna Juvat]

Not specific enough!

[jock001]

The only person "seething" on the Clutha thread was you, as all and sundry pished themselves laughing at your pretence of authority on the subject. Your tear-stained reference to taxpayer's money being spent on a cop's funeral was one of many highlights.

So why is it you are still crying about it? Why is it one year later all the things I said at the time still ring true? The lack of radio call was very suspect given how far travelled between witness reports of an aircraft in trouble and the actual crash site, the one witness who described an aircraft tumbling end over end was discredited.

Why is it that 1 year on, all the reports from the accident investigation point to no mechanical fault discovered but the fuel pumps had been switched off manually?

Feel free to go back to that thread and elaborate but we all know you won't. You don't have the intellect for it.

Except that isn't what he's saying. It's clearly people who complain about having no money (or not being able to afford to lose a small proportion of a monthly wage) but choose to spend on non-essential, nice to have items that are attracting his ire.

Except he complained about people investing in the share scheme too.

Those terrible wasteful gits investing in their futures should be ashamed of themselves.

Or it might be that he just hates anyone who doesn't agree with unions. You'll notice how often he calls people names without actually responding to their points.

I pointed out that while collective bargaining works, unions always turn into big beurocracies that don't properly represent the individuals they are meant to. He couldn't counter that point so he's gone in the huff and just started namecalling.

[Supras]

Not specific enough!

Okay, I could lose £200 for the privilege of standing out in the cold hassling co workers, I just don't want to.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

So why is it you are still crying about it?

[\quote]

Who's 'crying' about it? I simply stated you were a fucking idiot.

[Audaces Fortuna Juvat]

Okay, I could lose £200 for the privilege of standing out in the cold hassling co workers, I just don't want to.

Professors only get £200 a day

[jock001]

So why is it you are still crying about it?

[\quote]

Who's 'crying' about it? I simply stated you were a fucking idiot.

AS I said, everything so far confirms I was right, you're having trouble accepting that so you've gone in the huff and called me a fucking idiot.

You're still crying.

Surely a whole year of crying must set some sort of record?

[Supras]

Professors only get £200 a day

Sorry, this post doesn't make any sense.

Please try again later.

[ham89]

Ah right.

How about your employers decide to reduce your salary by 20% a year? I'm guessing you're still going to be OK with that, because you are grateful for your job right?

Very later reply here, sorry.

My point isn't that striking is wrong, its that striking has become the go to tactic to resolve any dispute. A pay cut of 20% would merit a strike. Changes to the Ts&Cs of a pension fund do not.

Also, why should there be automatic wage rises in the NHS? Wage rises should be based on work ethic, contribution and ambition. Not just because. Oh and I work for the NHS.

[parsforlife]

Very later reply here, sorry.

My point isn't that striking is wrong, its that striking has become the go to tactic to resolve any dispute. A pay cut of 20% would merit a strike. Changes to the Ts&Cs of a pension fund do not.

Also, why should there be automatic wage rises in the NHS? Wage rises should be based on work ethic, contribution and ambition. Not just because. Oh and I work for the NHS.

Nothing to do with nhs but generally since that thing called inflation exists then employers should really be giving a pay rise, purely to avoid giving workers a pay cut in real terms.

[jock001]

Nothing to do with nhs but generally since that thing called inflation exists then employers should really be giving a pay rise, purely to avoid giving workers a pay cut in real terms.

That isn't practical though.

1) The figure you pick for inflation is arbitrary, based on the change in price of some things but not others. Otherwise it's impossible to calculate.

2) Overall standard of living should be what things are judged on but that's also imposible to put an accurate figure on.

3) AS the global economy goes on, wages are going to average out a lot more between different countries. Poor countries will get a lot richer, we'll get a bit poorer. We can't continue to guarantee £6.50 per hour when there are people soimewhere else willing to work for $3 per day.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

That isn't practical though.

1) The figure you pick for inflation is arbitrary, based on the change in price of some things but not others. Otherwise it's impossible to calculate.

2) Overall standard of living should be what things are judged on but that's also imposible to put an accurate figure on.

3) AS the global economy goes on, wages are going to average out a lot more between different countries. Poor countries will get a lot richer, we'll get a bit poorer. We can't continue to guarantee £6.50 per hour when there are people soimewhere else willing to work for $3 per day.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22523612

[jock001]

So there's a new arbitrary figure for inflation that goes alongside all the other abitrary ways to calculate inflation and probably doesn't tie with any of them?

[Tommy Nooka]

Very later reply here, sorry.

My point isn't that striking is wrong, its that striking has become the go to tactic to resolve any dispute. A pay cut of 20% would merit a strike. Changes to the Ts&Cs of a pension fund do not.

Also, why should there be automatic wage rises in the NHS? Wage rises should be based on work ethic, contribution and ambition. Not just because. Oh and I work for the NHS.

Nonsense!

Say you accept a job that pays 10/15% less than a similar job elsewhere because they have a very good pension, 15/20% better than their equivalents.

Once you've been in the job 5 years (without a payrise) your employer decides that your pension offer is not in line with the other equivalent employers and reduces your pension and asks you to pay more into it, do you think that isn't a pay cut?

[ham89]

Nonsense!

Say you accept a job that pays 10/15% less than a similar job elsewhere because they have a very good pension, 15/20% better than their equivalents.

Once you've been in the job 5 years (without a payrise) your employer decides that your pension offer is not in line with the other equivalent employers and reduces your pension and asks you to pay more into it, do you think that isn't a pay cut?

The changes in question do not in any way represent a 20% loss.

[Tommy Nooka]

The changes in question do not in any way represent a 20% loss.

I don't know the exact figure I was talking hypothetically but where do you draw the line? Is 20% some magic figure?

Is it alright to cut someones wages by 19% but not 20%?

Can you imagine what would happen if football clubs tried to start changing players contracts when they felt like it?

But somehow it's acceptable to do this to the public sector because.......well, just because!!

[H_B]

Nonsense!

Say you accept a job that pays 10/15% less than a similar job elsewhere because they have a very good pension, 15/20% better than their equivalents.

Once you've been in the job 5 years (without a payrise) your employer decides that your pension offer is not in line with the other equivalent employers and reduces your pension and asks you to pay more into it, do you think that isn't a pay cut?

Spot on.

[H_B]

Very later reply here, sorry.

My point isn't that striking is wrong, its that striking has become the go to tactic to resolve any dispute.

This is nonsense. Striking is very much a last resort, for several obvious reasons.

It only ever follows a complete breakdown in communication between employer and union. Ultimately this will be represented by the employer in question giving a "take it or leave it" offer, which is completely unacceptable.

Before I went on strike we worked to rule for several months. There was a gradual escalation, until strike action was unavoidable, once the company made it clear they did not intend to offer any new deal (which they could certainly afford) however long we worked to rule.