All things Dundee FC

[Ludo*1]

I thought it was more because what little pace he had has gone and he’s made several spectacular blunders including mental bookings and sending offs. I’ve always thought he was half decent on the ball and quite a good passer of the ball.

I'll accept that Spud, wasn't trying to be dismissive but read my post back and felt I came across that way.

I don't think O'Dea was ever catching a pacy striker in a foot race. I wouldn't have said that was a major downfall in his game. I was more of the opinion that his confidence was shot, he'd end up trying an over ambitious pass and punting it to nowhere. He also got caught a few times.

When O'Dea joined I thought he was massively overrated by our support. I now feel he's underrated! Think he gets an overly hard time. Can't comment on yesterday's performance.

My biggest annoyance is that for a captain, he's awfully good at screaming in a youngsters face when it is him that's fucked up.

[Girth]

On the plus side, how shit are Thistle and County!?

[sergie's no1 fan]

Caulker isn't a ball playing CH whatsoever. Either is O'Dea. Meekings can do it but he was a bombscare attempting it last week. Therefore, we shouldn't be utilising that style of play.

Gadzhalov and Julen are probably the best CH's we have with the ball at their feet and they've been bombed out the squad (Julen can't have many complaints mind).

It's just bizarre, everything McCann does struggles to have an explanation. McCann destroying Jon and throwing the ball away against St Johnstone. Then bringing Holt out from the cold. He'd not made the bench since January yet starts today.

How many different positions has Deacon been deployed in now?

In his post match interview, he fairly tore into Parish. Rightfully so. But the subbie keeper he signed isn't even making his bench.

It's shocking mismanagement. He doesn't know what he's doing week to week.

You's got the wrong Derry boy!

Hate to think what would have happened if Jack Ross did go to Dundee, we'd both be having totally different seasons.

The Premiership team should still scoosh the play offs but its not worth it for the nerves alone. Especially if it was to be a Dundee derby.

[capt_oats]

11 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

It's shocking mismanagement. He doesn't know what he's doing week to week.

The below is far too much effort from someone who's not even a Dundee fan but f**k it, it's Sunday morning and I'm bored so I'll post it anyway:

Looking at Dundee's fixtures last season the 30th game was the 0-7 against Aberdeen.

I know Hartley got his jotters because he pretty much held his hands up and said he didn't know how to fix it along with a run of 7 straight losses up to the split and there seemed to be a general consensus that he was taking you down, which is fair enough. Bearing that in mind though it seems kind of remarkable that McCann's actually in a worse position now than Hartley was at the same stage last season.

Not only that but his team's scored fewer goals, conceded exactly the same number and is 2 places worse off in the league:

16/17 - P 30 W 8  D 6 L 16 F 32 A 48 GD -16 Pts 30 Pos 8th
17/18 - P 30 W 8 D 4 L 18 F 30 A 48 GD -18 Pts 28 Pos 10th

Going back to the start of December you're looking at 6 wins in 18 games in all competitions: 3 have been against the 2 teams below you, 1 was against ICT who are currently 8th in the Championship (having drawn against them in the first place) and the other 2 were against sides who were down to 10 men (in the case of St Johnstone a man down from the 22nd minute). With Hearts, Celtic and Rangers coming up there's every chance you could be looking at going into the split on the back of 6 straight defeats.

The above is a pretty long-winded way of saying that McCann's season so far has pretty much mirrored the season that got Hartley sacked. I wouldn't imagine that's what the board had in mind when they gave him a shree year deal and gave him the go ahead to sign virtually an entire new team but given there's a reasonable chance you could be going into the post-split fixtures with a worse record than last season is McCann's position actually under any pressure?

I've joked before about McCann's record being worse than Maurice Malpas was for us (it still is, after 30 games Malpas was: P 30 W 9 D 6 L 15 F 33 A 47 GD -14 Pts 33 Pos 10th) but we binned Malpas at the end of that season and wrote it off as having been a terrible appointment with everyone pretending it never happened. Even ICT emptied Foran at the end of last season, granted they were relegated but the principle is the same in so much as he was an inexperienced manager clearly out his depth.

Regardless of whether he keeps Dundee up or not is Nelms likely to just put this season down to a learning experience for McCann, even though (to date) his performance has actually been worse than the one that saw his predecessor emptied? Or is everyone likely to just hold their hands up and say "that was a fucking terrible idea, thanks for your time Neil". 

Sadsack that I am I've been rubbernecking over on TDB forum and am genuinely quite surprised by the number of posters who are still making excuses for McCann and seem to have a "Thistle and County are shite so we'll be fine" mentality. The handwringing about a lack of positivity is genuinely amazing. In fact, (subpost incoming) the guy who opened a post with "I don't know why folk are feeling so negative" and proceeds to reel off series of "if your auntie had baws"-type scenarios in the Aberdeen match thread...fucking hell.

Perhaps it's just that I'm used to Steelmen Online and the pitchforks being out every time Motherwell lose a game but some of the obvious denial going on over on the TDB about McCann is quite something.

Edited March 18, 2018 by capt_oats

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

The below is far too much effort from someone who's not even a Dundee fan but f**k it, it's Sunday morning and I'm bored so I'll post it anyway:

Looking at Dundee's fixtures last season the 30th game was the 0-7 against Aberdeen.

I know Hartley got his jotters because he pretty much held his hands up and said he didn't know how to fix it along with a run of 7 straight losses up to the split and there seemed to be a general consensus that he was taking you down, which is fair enough. Bearing that in mind though it seems kind of remarkable that McCann's actually in a worse position now than Hartley was at the same stage last season.

Not only that but his team's scored fewer goals, conceded exactly the same number and is 2 places worse off in the league:

16/17 - P 30 W 8  D 6 L 16 F 32 A 48 GD -16 Pts 30 Pos 8th
17/18 - P 30 W 8 D 4 L 18 F 30 A 48 GD -18 Pts 28 Pos 10th

Going back to the start of December you're looking at 6 wins in 18 games in all competitions: 3 have been against the 2 teams below you, 1 was against ICT who are currently 8th in the Championship (having drawn against them in the first place) and the other 2 were against sides who were down to 10 men (in the case of St Johnstone a man down from the 22nd minute). With Hearts, Celtic and Rangers coming up there's every chance you could be looking at going into the split on the back of 6 straight defeats.

The above is a pretty long-winded way of saying that McCann's season so far has pretty much mirrored the season that got Hartley sacked. I wouldn't imagine that's what the board had in mind when they gave him a shree year deal and gave him the go ahead to sign virtually an entire new team but given there's a reasonable chance you could be going into the post-split fixtures with a worse record than last season is McCann's position actually under any pressure?

I've joked before about McCann's record being worse than Maurice Malpas was for us (it still is, after 30 games Malpas was: P 30 W 9 D 6 L 15 F 33 A 47 GD -14 Pts 33 Pos 10th) but we binned Malpas at the end of that season and wrote it off as having been a terrible appointment with everyone pretending it never happened. Even ICT emptied Foran at the end of last season, granted they were relegated but the principle is the same in so much as he was an inexperienced manager clearly out his depth.

Regardless of whether he keeps Dundee up or not is Nelms likely to just put this season down to a learning experience for McCann, even though (to date) his performance has actually been worse than the one that saw his predecessor emptied? Or is everyone likely to just hold their hands up and say "that was a fucking terrible idea, thanks for your time Neil". 

Sadsack that I am I've been rubbernecking over on TDB forum and am genuinely quite surprised by the number of posters who are still making excuses for McCann and seem to have a "Thistle and County are shite so we'll be fine" mentality. The handwringing about a lack of positivity is genuinely amazing. In fact, (subpost incoming) the guy who opened a post with "I don't know why folk are feeling so negative" and proceeds to reel off series of "if your auntie had baws"-type scenarios in the Aberdeen match thread...fucking hell.

Perhaps it's just that I'm used to Steelmen Online and the pitchforks being out every time Motherwell lose a game but some of the obvious denial going on over on the TDB about McCann is quite something.

Theres a boy on their forum who despises us to the point of constantly calling us lucky. Apparently its pure luck we scudded them 4-0 and then got points against Rangers, Celtic and Hibs, and if you ignore the opening three games we'd be in the relegation spots (we wouldn't). 

It's amusing hangover shit reading. 

[Busta Nut]

Neil McCann, Shagged his gran.

[capt_oats]

3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Theres a boy on their forum who despises us to the point of constantly calling us lucky. Apparently its pure luck we scudded them 4-0 and then got points against Rangers, Celtic and Hibs, and if you ignore the opening three games we'd be in the relegation spots (we wouldn't). 

It's amusing hangover shit reading. 

Same guy I think.

He's been banging on about Dundee's excellent away record all week completely ignoring the fact that they were playing against 10 men in the games against your lot, us, Accies and Killie (a game they lost despite being 2-1 up against 10 men with 16 mins to go).

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Same guy I think.

He's been banging on about Dundee's excellent away record all week completely ignoring the fact that they were playing against 10 men in the games against your lot, us, Accies and Killie (a game they lost despite being 2-1 up against 10 men with 16 mins to go).

Sounds like the right one. He seems to be a wee world of his own though. Most Dee fans on here seem to want McCann gone regardless of where they finish, tbf. 

[Shadow Play]

16 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

The below is far too much effort from someone who's not even a Dundee fan but f**k it, it's Sunday morning and I'm bored so I'll post it anyway:

Looking at Dundee's fixtures last season the 30th game was the 0-7 against Aberdeen.

I know Hartley got his jotters because he pretty much held his hands up and said he didn't know how to fix it along with a run of 7 straight losses up to the split and there seemed to be a general consensus that he was taking you down, which is fair enough. Bearing that in mind though it seems kind of remarkable that McCann's actually in a worse position now than Hartley was at the same stage last season.

Not only that but his team's scored fewer goals, conceded exactly the same number and is 2 places worse off in the league:

16/17 - P 30 W 8  D 6 L 16 F 32 A 48 GD -16 Pts 30 Pos 8th
17/18 - P 30 W 8 D 4 L 18 F 30 A 48 GD -18 Pts 28 Pos 10th

Going back to the start of December you're looking at 6 wins in 18 games in all competitions: 3 have been against the 2 teams below you, 1 was against ICT who are currently 8th in the Championship (having drawn against them in the first place) and the other 2 were against sides who were down to 10 men (in the case of St Johnstone a man down from the 22nd minute). With Hearts, Celtic and Rangers coming up there's every chance you could be looking at going into the split on the back of 6 straight defeats.

The above is a pretty long-winded way of saying that McCann's season so far has pretty much mirrored the season that got Hartley sacked. I wouldn't imagine that's what the board had in mind when they gave him a shree year deal and gave him the go ahead to sign virtually an entire new team but given there's a reasonable chance you could be going into the post-split fixtures with a worse record than last season is McCann's position actually under any pressure?

I've joked before about McCann's record being worse than Maurice Malpas was for us (it still is, after 30 games Malpas was: P 30 W 9 D 6 L 15 F 33 A 47 GD -14 Pts 33 Pos 10th) but we binned Malpas at the end of that season and wrote it off as having been a terrible appointment with everyone pretending it never happened. Even ICT emptied Foran at the end of last season, granted they were relegated but the principle is the same in so much as he was an inexperienced manager clearly out his depth.

Regardless of whether he keeps Dundee up or not is Nelms likely to just put this season down to a learning experience for McCann, even though (to date) his performance has actually been worse than the one that saw his predecessor emptied? Or is everyone likely to just hold their hands up and say "that was a fucking terrible idea, thanks for your time Neil". 

Sadsack that I am I've been rubbernecking over on TDB forum and am genuinely quite surprised by the number of posters who are still making excuses for McCann and seem to have a "Thistle and County are shite so we'll be fine" mentality. The handwringing about a lack of positivity is genuinely amazing. In fact, (subpost incoming) the guy who opened a post with "I don't know why folk are feeling so negative" and proceeds to reel off series of "if your auntie had baws"-type scenarios in the Aberdeen match thread...fucking hell.

Perhaps it's just that I'm used to Steelmen Online and the pitchforks being out every time Motherwell lose a game but some of the obvious denial going on over on the TDB about McCann is quite something.

I’d assume a big part of the reason Hartley got punted was because he admitted he didn’t know what else to do in an interview.  McCann talks a good game and I’m sure he won’t make the same mistake.  In any case I’m not convinced Nelms will see past McCann’s belief in what he says he is trying to achieve.

Hartley’s signings in the last summer transfer window didn’t help either.  El Bak, Williams, Hately, Vincent we’re all big earners so you’d have to assume Hartley was keen to get them.  None of them even remotely performed well.  

 

[Juantwothree]

12 hours ago, RossDee01 said:

Thought O'Hara was our best player today, especially first half. He definitely seems best suited to that free role in front of Kamara and McGowan.

Anyway, I'm sick fed up of this season now and just want it to end. Unfortunately there's a few more rollercoasters to be ridden yet:(

Ohara played very well yesterday considering him and deacon played about 3 different positions each. Odea was outstanding aswell thru himself in front of everything. Tbf I think the whole back 3 played well. I liked the set up until moussa went off at half time. If we keep that system and team (swap ajay for Murray) we will be fine as that will work against the lesser teams. 

[Fifespud]

Ohara played very well yesterday considering him and deacon played about 3 different positions each. Odea was outstanding aswell thru himself in front of everything. Tbf I think the whole back 3 played well. I liked the set up until moussa went off at half time. If we keep that system and team (swap ajay for Murray) we will be fine as that will work against the lesser teams. 

I agree with most of that other than I think it’s a system that MIGHT work against lower opposition. Yesterday was the classic shitfest that Hartley resorted to roundabout Xmas last season. It’s a pity Haber is ‘injured’.

[Ludo*1]

Same guy I think.
He's been banging on about Dundee's excellent away record all week completely ignoring the fact that they were playing against 10 men in the games against your lot, us, Accies and Killie (a game they lost despite being 2-1 up against 10 men with 16 mins to go).

I'm quoting this one rather than your mammoth post just so people don't have to scroll!

You raise a lot of good points. McCann was asked in his pre match interview if we were any better off than when he came in. As you'd expect, he went mental and said we have a much better squad. (We don't).

McCann is a Dundee hero and he talks a better game than pretty much any manager we've had. He's very good at keeping the fans onside. Even after the St Johnstone game, the vast majority of fans chose to make a hasty exit. Whereas after the Hamilton game that ended Hartley, there was chants of Hartley, Hartley GTF. That's just not happened so far. Many have been hypnotised by this idea that McCann has the right ideas about football and his refusal to compromise will mean it'll come good in the end.

He needs to go.

[Shadow Play]

Have you tried singing McCann, McCann GTF?  It just doesn’t flow as easily as Hartley, Hartley GTF.

On a more serious note, fans were angry with Hartley because he had (credit to him) taken us top six and after that it was downhill all the way.  With McCann I get the feeling fans just feel it’s the same old story, just a different manager in charge.  

When fans are angry and chant for the manager to leave at least shows they care - whether you agree with them or not.

[Ludo*1]

McCann could potentially be banned from the dugout for between 2 and all 5 of our post split games due to his actions last week.

Great leadership.

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

3 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

McCann could potentially be banned from the dugout for between 2 and all 5 of our post split games due to his actions last week.

Great leadership.

Might be a good thing.

[Fifespud]

Have you tried singing McCann, McCann GTF?  It just doesn’t flow as easily as Hartley, Hartley GTF.
On a more serious note, fans were angry with Hartley because he had (credit to him) taken us top six and after that it was downhill all the way.  With McCann I get the feeling fans just feel it’s the same old story, just a different manager in charge.  
When fans are angry and chant for the manager to leave at least shows they care - whether you agree with them or not.

Hartley had had 3 seasons to make improvements apparently 2 of them with a top 6 budget. We were going backwards rapidly and he made some disastrous signings on longish contracts. He had to go.

McCann appears a stubborn guy with a propensity to lose his shit easily. He’s made a mixed bag of signings but seems to have no clue as to how to make a decent team out of them. He needs emptied too.

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, Fifespud said:

 

Hartley had had 3 seasons to make improvements apparently 2 of them with a top 6 budget. We were going backwards rapidly and he made some disastrous signings on longish contracts. He had to go.

McCann appears a stubborn guy with a propensity to lose his shit easily. He’s made a mixed bag of signings but seems to have no clue as to how to make a decent team out of them. He needs emptied too.

 

Will you avoid the relegation play-off spot?

 

[johnnydun]

I like McCann as I can remember him as a player and he is Derry'd oot his nut.

He has brought in some really good players, Kamarag, Caulker, Spanish Jon, Meekings, Deacon, Murray not forgetting Hendry and Allan.

However he is tactically inept and way out his depth, his poor man management skills, stubbornness and his inability to not know who to pick every week means he has to go. We have, on paper, a pretty decent squad so the inability to perform as a team falls with McCann.

Im sure he would make quite a good Scout (as long as its not strikers he is sent out for), but management is not for him.

At this point in time, we need Jocky.

Edited March 18, 2018 by johnnydun

[RandomGuy.]

Dundee fans in a nutshell. 

"McCann was a cracking player for us but needs gone, being a legend in the past means nothing if he's not going to help us now" 

"Who should replace him?" 

"A 70 year old manager who hasn't held a job at this level, or any level, for almost eight years" 

"Why?" 

"He's a legend at the club" 

Never change. 

[happyaccie]

7 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Dundee fans in a nutshell. 

"McCann was a cracking player for us but needs gone, being a legend in the past means nothing if he's not going to help us now" 

"Who should replace him?" 

"A 70 year old manager who hasn't held a job at this level, or any level, for almost eight years" 

"Why?" 

"He's a legend at the club" 

Never change. 

Class post made me LOL.