LongTimeLurker Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 There are still vacancies in the LL. Until those are filled any junior club that gets entry level can get in without going anywhere near the EoS or SoS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 There are still vacancies in the LL. Until those are filled any junior club that gets entry level can get in without going anywhere near the EoS or SoS. I'm fully aware of that. You'll have to explain how that changes observations that the Junior leagues are either tiers 6/7/8, or no tiers at all, if arrangements exist which include the EOS and SOS leagues in the pyramid system because they have joined, but not the Junior leagues because they haven't?!?! Vacancies are a temporary, finite anomaly, and unrelated to tiers/promotion. Junior district clubs or Border Amateur teams could win the elections. It's impossible to suggest as your post #32 seems to that the Junior leagues can be outwith it yet above parts of it. That would be like me as a civilian claiming rank over a member of the armed forces. I could join directly at a commission while it was allowed, or work-up from Private, but while a civvie I rank above neither. I'm outwith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The Junior clubs are unquestionably below tier 6. They have no rank within the structure of football in Scotland but if they were to be considered they'd start at tier 7 as a minimum. Of course that's only the case in the South. There doesn't seem to be any process in the North - too few clubs to extend the pyramid. Which is one reason why the 2 way split at tier 5 is absolute bullshit. Anyway, there are some interesting ties. I think we've drawn a tough one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The Junior clubs are unquestionably below tier 6. Get a grip. If the Lowland League had been organised rationally rather than according to what was best for Spartans aspirations for being the next Meadowbank Thistle (i.e. third Embra club with near zero support) it would be almost entirely comprised of junior clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishyeltz Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Its actually all hypothetical until the juniors join and integrate into the pyramid. They are not part of the league set up, therefore they are not at any tier. The standard of the top flight of the juniors is in congruence with the standard of the LL in my opinion. Furthermore do you think a club like Linlithgow Rose will start at tier 7 or 8 when they move over? Not a chance. Blyth Spartans and Whitby Town said exactly the same when the Northern League did a Scottish Juniors all those years ago. Besides, where are the Northern League now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 How does the Isthmian League fit in with your anglocentric narrative? Gave the Conference (Alliance Premier) the bodyswerve initially but within a few years was one of its feeders, because that's where common sense dictated it belonged. If the SFA get serious about having a genuine pyramid, the top central belt juniors will feed into SPFL2 at tier 5 on a par with the LL. The current LL is not fit for purpose for that and after a few seasons pressure will grow to hit the reset button and start again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Get a grip. If the Lowland League had been organised rationally rather than according to what was best for Spartans aspirations for being the next Meadowbank Thistle (i.e. third Embra club with near zero support) it would be almost entirely comprised of junior clubs. What could have been done to get the juniors on board? It was open application, they can't enter clubs that don't apply to join! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 How many times do I need to post the same thing? If the SFA were serious about a pyramid they would have disaffiliated the SJFA and told the three regions to affiliate directly and then set out the terms of the pyramid using that as the starting point. The SJFA does almost nothing in administrative terms beyond organising the junior cup and a semi-professional national team. The SFA already handles stuff like referee assignments and player registration. If the SJFA still exists, it is because the powers that be at the SFA are not really serious about a pyramid at this point and are only really interested in a slight rejig to the senior grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Whilst that maybe could of happened (and could still happen) it doesn't change that the juniors are late to the party and can't go pushing themselves ahead of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 We were assured on here for years by the usual suspects that junior clubs were going to get axed from the Scottish Cup over the licensing issue. That didn't unfold in the manner we had been assured was inevitable, so there is a long way to go on this stuff and it's important to remember that the Lowland League is only half of the story at tier 5. The Highland League is not going to be able to operate an 18 club closed shop for much longer for a variety of reasons and given there is a north region junior club that is licensed and actually does want in where that new tier 5 setup is concerned, that's where the next step in the slow evolution of the structure of the Scottish game is likely to unfold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTPAISLEY Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I thought the Juniors were quite happy staying where they are to avoid long distances anyway. I think they are currently below LL even if the standard isn't but if they would like to join the pyramid surely leagues below that would be regional to suit Junior clubs and anyone winning promotion to LL would then have a choice on whether to accept the move up or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The main sticking point according to some is that the SFA have been insisting that promotion would be mandatory rather than optional, and the commitment to this was even added to the entry level licensing requirements as a last minute addition when junior clubs like Linlithgow Rose and Banks O' Dee started to take an interest in the process. Doesn't appear to apply to Brora Rangers though where moving into the SPFL is concerned. They have been talking about holding a vote amongst their fans before committing to a pro/rel playoff if they win the HL again next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankies Alive Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Instead of trying to bully the Junior clubs into joining a League they have no interest in joining why dont the SFA agree to allow the best Junior Club into a 3 way play off with the HL and LL winners. The North Juniors can sit below the HL and the winners of either the East/West combined Junior League (which is being proposed) or a play off between the West/East Juniors champions if that fails. The only stumbling block would be licensing but as LTL says there is little of chance of all the LL clubs attaining that this season anyway. If the top Juniors League was committed to achieving SFA licensing which would include access to funding which is not currently available to Junior Clubs then there is no reason to stop this from happening. In return the Juniors could allow entry into the Junior Cup to all non-league clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIML Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Isnt there other threads on this debate?? Best of Luck to the junior sides, all have a good chance of progressing, looking forward to welcoming the Buckie lads down to auchinleck for what should be a good match. Fancy us to get a result as long as we play to our usual level but no doubt Buckie will play us hard. Eeka Peeka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRoyGuy Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Level this level that feeder this feeder that, enough to make you reach for the drinks cabinet. Separate entity shouting be the new phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Level this level that feeder this feeder that, enough to make you reach for the drinks cabinet. Separate entity shouting be the new phrase. Except when it comes to participation in the Big Scottish?? What makes junior football a separate entity? Football clubs whether they are non-league senior or junior should just be football clubs. We may disagree on how what level we want to stop progressing from but in all other areas we are very similar. We both strive for the same goals, have the same problems and compete for the same players in some areas, If Gretna was located a few miles north west, when the old club folded the new one would have started in the junior leagues. The same can be said of Clydebank a few miles south east and after the shenanigans with Airdrie the new club could have formed as a non-league senior team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Get a grip. If the Lowland League had been organised rationally rather than according to what was best for Spartans aspirations for being the next Meadowbank Thistle (i.e. third Embra club with near zero support) it would be almost entirely comprised of junior clubs. You really have no idea what goes on at Spartans. Let me help you. The Spartans Community A community club which should be held up as a model for other "community football clubs". I doubt if there is any other club that comes close to what they do in their local community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Spare me the patronising propaganda. Can you name a player that Spartans have produced that has done anything significant in the game? The way things work nowadays all the best youth players wind up with full-time clubs long before school leaving age. To be able to sustain a worthwhile youth setup that will make a genuine impact you actually need to have supporters. Everything else is a glorified form of babysitting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Spare me the patronising propaganda. Can you name a player that Spartans have produced that has done anything significant in the game? The way things work nowadays all the best youth players wind up with full-time clubs long before school leaving age. To be able to sustain a worthwhile youth setup that will make a genuine impact you actually need to have supporters. Everything else is a glorified form of babysitting Supporting the kids from one of the most deprived areas in Edinburgh? If that's your opinion?? Just trying to balance up the negative spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Spartans have almost no supporters and play in a league with minimal sponsorship income. Anything they do will be revenue neutral at best and won't involve a significant net cash expenditure on their part beyond what they get as a handout from the SFA for showing up at AGMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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