Sportsound Watch

[RiG]

1 hour ago, MSU said:

I was quite astounded by that, too, although I probably shouldn't have been. The player in question was Trevor Francis, who had the audacity to sip wine while reading the Italian paper in a bar after the British Cup Final, so Ferguson with the help of "Wee" Durranty set fire to the paper. That'll learn him.

When you strip it all down folk like Durrant and Ferguson are just neds.

[DA Baracus]

Another thing I've remembered is that Hughes said his Falkirk team had 'no right' to match Deadco at football. Attitudes like this, that lap at the old firm* boaby, are why so many teams are beaten before the game even starts when they play Celtic or played Deadco. For a while clubs mostly didn't make this error against Sevco but sadly it seems too many are now at the stage where they treat them as if they're the dead club.

Such attitudes are prevalent in Scottish football unfortunately 

[ICTChris]

Why are so many people involved with Scottish football like this?  Scotland used to produce innovative coaches who tried new things but we seem to have become lost in a swamp of nostalgia for the wrong things and navel-gazing, alongside a good old dose of chippiness about anyone seeming 'educated' or 'above themselves'.

[Hammer Jag]

The hostility towards Ian Cathro from the press and his fellow professionals is a perfect example of the mindset which continues to blight Scottish football. I was gutted that he failed at Hearts, purely because the dinosaurs who attacked him will feel vindicated.

Our game is so depressingly parochial. New ideas are frowned upon and dismissed, people who haven’t come from a traditional ‘football background’ are treated with suspicion and ridicule and we can’t have Johnny Foreigner managing the national team. 

We can’t tolerate intelligent journalists who are capable of delivering objectivity and insight. Ensuring that thick ex-professionals like Billy Dodds and Pat Bonner are kept on the gravy train is of more importance. Sportsound is a microcosm of the problems facing Scottish football as a whole.

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Hammer Jag

[Melanius Mullarkey]

20 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Astonishingly sycophantic stuff with the wanking over Celtic and Deadco teams of old.

Hughes said that 'the SPL needs Dundee United'. He also said that a young Scottish footballer dreams of doing 4 things; playing for their local club, playing for their country and playing for one of the Old Firm*.

I've not mistyped that.

I still often dream of pulling on the famous blue shirt of Glasgow Rangers.  Mind you Im 45 now.  Sadly, it will never happen.

Spoiler

Because they are dead.

 

[Stu]

Did they really have the sons of Paul McStay and Peter Grant on tonight? Why?

[shull]

Just for balance, it will be the Sons of William tomorrow night.

[David W]

6 hours ago, Hammer Jag said:

 

We can’t tolerate intelligent journalists who are capable of delivering objectivity and insight. Ensuring that thick ex-professionals like Billy Dodds and Pat Bonner are kept on the gravy train is of more importance. Sportsound is a microcosm of the problems facing Scottish football as a whole.

 

Pat Bonner is something else. Tonight I heard him say that Zenit manager Robert Massini is under pressure because  Lokomotiv Spartak are 8 points clear in the Russian league. 

Quite liked hearing from the two Clyde players, until I realised they weren't being asked much about Clyde. To give them both credit, they both sold us well.

Edited February 21, 2018 by David W

[1320Lichtie]

Another thing I've remembered is that Hughes said his Falkirk team had 'no right' to match Deadco at football. Attitudes like this, that lap at the old firm* boaby, are why so many teams are beaten before the game even starts when they play Celtic or played Deadco. For a while clubs mostly didn't make this error against Sevco but sadly it seems too many are now at the stage where they treat them as if they're the dead club.

Such attitudes are prevalent in Scottish football unfortunately 

 

You know what he was meaning. Fans feel the same way too so I’m not sure why you see it as a problem.

 

This error against Sevco you’re talking about, I’m guessing that it has absolutely f**k all to do with clubs having that attitude and more to do with the fact that Sevco aren’t absolutely pish anymore like they have been in recent seasons.

[1320Lichtie]

Pat Bonner is something else. Tonight I heard him say that Zenit manager Robert Massini is under pressure because  Lokomotiv Spartak are 8 points clear in the Russian league. 
Quite liked hearing from the two Clyde players, until I realised they weren't being asked much about Clyde. To give them both credit, they both sold us well.

Bonner is the worst by a country mile it’s not even close.

[MSU]

Two words: Chick "Young".

Bonner is clearly incompetent to the extent that the quality of his reportage actually improves when he fucks off early, but it's conceivable that some more challenged listeners may be mistaken into thinking Chick knows what he's talking about and is therefore an authority on football, which makes him dangerous.

[nsr]

16 hours ago, Hammer Jag said:

The hostility towards Ian Cathro from the press and his fellow professionals is a perfect example of the mindset which continues to blight Scottish football. I was gutted that he failed at Hearts, purely because the dinosaurs who attacked him will feel vindicated.

Our game is so depressingly parochial. New ideas are frowned upon and dismissed, people who haven’t come from a traditional ‘football background’ are treated with suspicion and ridicule and we can’t have Johnny Foreigner managing the national team. 

We can’t tolerate intelligent journalists who are capable of delivering objectivity and insight. Ensuring that thick ex-professionals like Billy Dodds and Pat Bonner are kept on the gravy train is of more importance. Sportsound is a microcosm of the problems facing Scottish football as a whole.

 

I've long thought a big part of the problem is that it seems to be impossible to get rid of anyone who's useless. Managers get punted if they don't get results, players get dropped/released, etc, but the people who run the game and the journalists who sell/communicate it to the public seem to be untouchable no matter how many cock-ups they are responsible for.

Do other countries have that problem? If so, how do they mitigate it? If not, how did they solve/avoid it?

The other problem of course is that most people just don't care. As long as Celtic and some entity vaguely recognisable as "Rangers" are "competing" on a regular basis and providing a safety valve for the rage of Scottish society's violent scum element, most people are happy just to maintain the status quo.

[DA Baracus]

7 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

You know what he was meaning. Fans feel the same way too so I’m not sure why you see it as a problem.

 

This error against Sevco you’re talking about, I’m guessing that it has absolutely f**k all to do with clubs having that attitude and more to do with the fact that Sevco aren’t absolutely pish anymore like they have been in recent seasons.

Nope. Fans don't feel the same way, unless they're craven sycophants

[1320Lichtie]

Nope. Fans don't feel the same way, unless they're craven sycophants

 

Pish

 

This works both ways too.

 

When Celtic are scooshing league title after league title and winning cups fans of other clubs rightly point out that that’s what they should be doing because their budget is x times that of everyone else’s.

 

That was the same situation for a Falkirk manager back when Rangers were spending x amount the times of them year after year.

 

Yet you’re saying that a manager pointing that out is a bad thing.

 

You know what he means, do you think being a realist and admitting that made him and his team want to win any less?

 

 

[Salvo Montalbano]

Pat Bonner is something else. Tonight I heard him say that Zenit manager Robert Massini is under pressure because  Lokomotiv Spartak are 8 points clear in the Russian league. 
Quite liked hearing from the two Clyde players, until I realised they weren't being asked much about Clyde. To give them both credit, they both sold us well.

Loved Bonner's insights last night, particularly the section you've mentioned. The two Clyde players were on so they could talk about Celtic for the full hour without it appearing as if they were talking about Celtic for the full hour. The night before they'll be talking about Celtic for the full four hours. It's funny how they never cared about Clyde in the past. Til Barry Ferguson took over. Then they didn't as soon as he was sacked. Til they signed 2 players who are the sons of two former Celtic players. I'm assuming we'll never hear of them again once they leave.

[DA Baracus]

4 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Pish

 

This works both ways too.

 

When Celtic are scooshing league title after league title and winning cups fans of other clubs rightly point out that that’s what they should be doing because their budget is x times that of everyone else’s.

 

That was the same situation for a Falkirk manager back when Rangers were spending x amount the times of them year after year.

 

Yet you’re saying that a manager pointing that out is a bad thing.

 

You know what he means, do you think being a realist and admitting that made him and his team want to win any less?

 

 

He wasn't pointing that out. He saying that his team had 'no right' to compete. He was displaying a mindset that it prevalent in Scottish football, that we must all be subservient to Celtic and Sevco, and show them undue respect. 

This showing them undue respect is garbage, defeatist, craven pish that sees many teams beaten before the game even starts. 

Obviously Celtic are better than everyone else, but turn up and show them an undue respect can see you get hammered. Turn up and think you can win can see you do just that. You might not, but at least play like you believe. Alex Ferguson famously talked about this when Aberdeen manager.

[1320Lichtie]

He wasn't pointing that out. He saying that his team had 'no right' to compete. He was displaying a mindset that it prevalent in Scottish football, that we must all be subservient to Celtic and Sevco, and show them undue respect.  This showing them undue respect is garbage, defeatist, craven pish that sees many teams beaten before the game even starts.  Obviously Celtic are better than everyone else, but turn up and show them an undue respect can see you get hammered. Turn up and think you can win can see you do just that. You might not, but at least play like you believe. Alex Ferguson famously talked about this when Aberdeen manager.

 

 

 I disagree. I think you’re just having a go for the sake of it to be honest. No idea how you’ve come to that conclusion.

 

The budget difference between the 2 would’ve been ridiculous. If there was a cup game in England where an EPL team played another with a budget 20 times the size of a lower league team people would say the same.

 

It doesn’t mean that managers and players will go into games not believing they can win. They’ll go into it giving the other side respect because they are better, they’ll probably lose because the other side is better, not just because the other side just happens to be Celtic or Rangers.

 

If you were playing a game yourself you’d think exactly the same. You’d be slightly more nervous and a wee bit more wary if you were playing a team that was better than you were.

 

Same thing happens when Celtic mix it with the best teams when they’re in Europe. Their game changes because the opposition are better in the same way a Falkirk teams game would change from playing against an ICT or Motherwell to a game against Rangers.

 

I’ll watch Arbroath scud some teams in the league this year and then go to Stark’s on Saturday playing slightly different too and showing them more respect than what we would show a Stranraer. It happens at every single level of football. Obviously the financial gap isn’t the same.

 

As for the last bit, that’s Aberdeen, arguably the third force in Scottish football and I could be wrong but at that time the financial gap between the 2 would’ve been nowhere near as big. Maybe if he was managing Falkirk 10 year ago he’d have a similar opinion to Hughes. I don’t think the gaps as big now as it was in the early 2000s to be fair. Celtic and Rangers especially aren’t anywhere near as good as they used to be in my opinion.

 

 

ETA: this is also something that he is saying in hindsight. I don’t imagine this is something he (or any other manager) would’ve been saying in his pre match speech.

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, DA Baracus said:

He wasn't pointing that out. He saying that his team had 'no right' to compete. He was displaying a mindset that it prevalent in Scottish football, that we must all be subservient to Celtic and Sevco, and show them undue respect. 

This showing them undue respect is garbage, defeatist, craven pish that sees many teams beaten before the game even starts. 

Obviously Celtic are better than everyone else, but turn up and show them an undue respect can see you get hammered. Turn up and think you can win can see you do just that. You might not, but at least play like you believe. Alex Ferguson famously talked about this when Aberdeen manager.

Strongly agree. Obviously the comment is open to a degree of interpretation as to what he meant but IMO 1320Lichtie's being incredibly generous to Hughes.  

McCall was exactly the same for us. We were top of the league playing against the new incarnation of Rangers in the League Cup as they were embarking on their tour of the seaside leagues and the build-up to the game was essentially McCall telling the press that Rangers were favourites largely because...well, because they were Rangers.

FWIW: McCall's aggregate score against Rangers (both versions) was 23-2 against.

I don't think it's any surprise that Motherwell's recent headline results against Rangers (the 6-1 in the play-off and 2-0 in the LC semi-final) have come about with managers in charge who don't subscribe to the fore-lock tugging pish that Hughes, McCall and his ilk come out with. There is absolutely no chance we'd have beaten Rangers in that play-off had McCall been sitting in our dug out.

I seem to remember Bert Paton back in the 90s coming out with a line along the lines of "when you're playing the Old Firm the object is just to keep the score down". Which to me sums up the point you're making.

Edited February 22, 2018 by capt_oats

[1320Lichtie]

Strongly agree. Obviously the comment is open to a degree of interpretation as to what he meant but IMO 1320Lichtie's being incredibly generous to Hughes.   McCall was exactly the same for us. We were top of the league playing against the new incarnation of Rangers in the League Cup as they were embarking on their tour of the seaside leagues and the build-up to the game was essentially McCall telling the press that Rangers were favourites largely because...well, because they were Rangers.

FWIW: McCall's aggregate score against Rangers (both versions) was 23-2 against.

I don't think it's any surprise that Motherwell's recent headline results against Rangers (the 6-1 in the play-off and 2-0 in the LC semi-final) have come about with managers in charge who don't subscribe to the fore-lock tugging pish that Hughes, McCall and his ilk come out with. There is absolutely no chance we'd have beaten Rangers in that play-off had McCall been sitting in our dug out.

I seem to remember Bert Paton back in the 90s coming out with a line along the lines of "when you're playing the Old Firm the object is just to keep the score down". Which to me sums up the point you're making.

 

 

Maybe they scores have come about because Rangers were absolutely pish (in comparison to what they used to be) at the time of the 6-1 and slightly less pish in the LC semi.

 

I fancied Motherwell to beat them in the LC. Sure a lot of people did.

 

McCall might be saying they were favourites to the press but I’m guessing he would be saying a completely different thing to his team behind closed doors....

 

[wastecoatwilly]

Could listen to john Hughes all night fecking brilliant.