JakeSAFC Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Bollocks. Have you any idea how much pressure a state school from a low socio-economic area is under to improve their results year upon year (despite the abilities of pupils visibly dropping considerably each intake)? I'm just going by what a teacher said to me tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Some teachers/schools took the piss and so blatantly revised exactly what was in the prelim that whole classes were doing significantly worse in the final exam but getting upgraded on appeal. True story: My brother thought that his Standard Grade prelims were the real deal. This came to light when he asked me "where's the point in going back to school if I've finished all my exams?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Bollocks. Have you any idea how much pressure a state school from a low socio-economic area is under to improve their results year upon year (despite the abilities of pupils visibly dropping considerably each intake)? Agreed. I'm sure it happened in lots of departments in different councils. I've always found its better to have a fair to slightly difficult prelim and allow the pupils to dictate much of the revision, based on their weaknesses. That way, prelim results are not particularly good but it usually serves as a kick up the backside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 That way, prelim results are not particularly good but it usually serves as a kick up the backside Is that not the point in them anyway? More of a trial run to see where your weaknesses currently lie / so that the real thing isn't as daunting? I personally saw appeals based on prelims like somebody losing a 100m final run and then claiming they should get a better ranking because they broke the World Record in the heats. I can however appreciate exceptions in the case where somebody's dad had died at the time of the real exams etc but I remember teachers appealing for the sake of it simply because prelim results were higher. It's also not unusual for prelims to be past papers which have been similar for years and then (bam!)... whole new set which nobody was expecting and have only properly revised for 3/5 of the essay type questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I have no idea what a Nat 5 is. What does it compare to in the old Standard Grade/Int2/Higher system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 You don't need to tell me, I'm a teacher! Nat 4 is an utter joke of a qualification. Me too, though retired in June. I was at the SQA consultation meeting on Nat 4&5 in 2010(?). People were unanimous that for Nat 4 to be credible for parents and pupils a terminal and externally set and marked assessment was needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I have no idea what a Nat 5 is. What does it compare to in the old Standard Grade/Int2/Higher system? Int 2/Standard Grade Credit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I have no idea what a Nat 5 is. What does it compare to in the old Standard Grade/Int2/Higher system?It's theoretically meant to be the same level as Credit and Int 2. Of course, Int 2 was easier than Standard Grade. Remains to be seen whether it'll be as easy as Int 2 or as difficult as Credit, or somewhere in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Appeals have changed this year. The above scenario is no longer possible and the prelim can only be used on production of doctor's line or if there's been a family incident. Normal appeals now cost no matter the outcome, and it is only a remarking of the exam scripts. Edit: sorry should have read the thread properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Me too, though retired in June. I was at the SQA consultation meeting on Nat 4&5 in 2010(?). People were unanimous that for Nat 4 to be credible for parents and pupils a terminal and externally set and marked assessment was needed.It's impossible to fail. I know of places where kids who looked like they weren't going to achieve it being pulled in after school etc and miraculously passing. It is already completely devalued as a qualification and something needs to be done to address this or everyone will blanket attempt nat 5 and complete the fallback added value unit which grants a free nat 4 anyway. Especially if nat 5 is so easy to pass. I marked the English Close Reading paper and we were to be (imo) far too lenient. The standard required in my subject anyway is not as high as required at Credit and it completely fails as a preparation for Higher outside the fact that the courses work the same way. It's a fucking mess. Edit: just to add another gripe re nat 4, the least able kids who worked like f**k and got a "good" 3 or 4 are now not in any way differentiated from the f**k heads who didn't give a shit and ended up with a foundation grade. The bottom level pupils in all schools are now all exactly the same, which completely destroys all motivation in the lower sets. Why bother if you're going to pass anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 It's theoretically meant to be the same level as Credit and Int 2. Of course, Int 2 was easier than Standard Grade. Remains to be seen whether it'll be as easy as Int 2 or as difficult as Credit, or somewhere in between. That's certainly true for maths but it varies from subject to subject. In my own subject, which is Chemistry, Int2 was more difficult than Credit. This year's Nat5 was somewhere between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 This probably varies from council to council, but Nat 4 pupils are in school during what once would have been study leave. They've finished the course completed all assessments and many Nat 5 pupils in the class are on study leave. What motivation do the pupils have to turn up or bother doing any work during that time? Complete nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smpar Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Did enough to get into uni despite some tough conditions: AH Maths - B AH Chemistry - B Higher Accounts - B Higher Media Studies - Fail (following a strong A in the prelim ) Media is fucking horrendous, I only passed with a B because my teacher had some sort of soft spot for me and let me sit 4 prelims, the fourth being the day after the exam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Our Nat 5s got 2 days study leave before each exam and were in school with the Nat 4s all other times following an "alternative curriculum". By week three most weren't turning up despite threats of their absences being "on their record". It was a total joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smpar Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I finished my HNC at the very beginning of June after passing, thus meeting my condition to uni. I must say, having 3 months off is fucking tremendous, though I've been working throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 This probably varies from council to council, but Nat 4 pupils are in school during what once would have been study leave. They've finished the course completed all assessments and many Nat 5 pupils in the class are on study leave. What motivation do the pupils have to turn up or bother doing any work during that time? Complete nonsense Our Nat 5 candidates got the day before off and the day of the exam. The rest (and the Nat 5s when they didn't have an exam) were in class and we were told to provide "meaningful work". Needless to say it turned out to be a month of total nightmare. It will be even worse this year because there will be no study leave across the entire school due to S5 and S6s being able to sit Nat 4 and 5s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour Skinner Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 Do nat 4 students not get study leave? I feel sorry for them, study leave was my favourite part of school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bully_wee Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Media is fucking horrendous, I only passed with a B because my teacher had some sort of soft spot for me and let me sit 4 prelims, the fourth being the day after the exam Aye it's a hoaching subject. It was a good laugh though; my pals were in the class and I got on well with the teachers. I put no effort into Media or Accounts though, given I was forced by my school to sit two Highers as they couldn't offer AH Physics for me. Their argument for us having to sit at least 3 AH's/4 subjects was that we were required, by law, to be in school for 6 hours a week. 2 subjects alone would've guaranteed that Didn't help that the two teachers we had for Media had never taught it before and, according to those re-sitting, were teaching it in a completely incorrect fashion. Had appeals still existed in their former guise then I'd have gotten a C at least, but since I got into uni I'm not in the least bit bothered about failing something I put no effort into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Do nat 4 students not get study leave? I feel sorry for them, study leave was my favourite part of school There's no exam for Nat 4 so no need for study leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeSAFC Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Do nat 4 students not get study leave? I feel sorry for them, study leave was my favourite part of school Don't think they actually sit exams.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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