Lex Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 You do know that Westminster had to ok it though and to accept to recognise the outcome, dont you? Think they had to go to Edinburgh to sign something. Now all three UK parties are frankly sh*tting themselves just now. For you to think that they would want to go through that again is Utterly BONKERS. They were never not going to approve it. Do you really think they would try quash a future democratic process? That's one way to get to civil unrest, and civil unrest would be justified. If the people want independence, they will get independence. This is not a once in a life time opportunity, far from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 They were never not going to approve it. Do you really think they would try quash a future democratic process? That's one way to get to civil unrest, and civil unrest would be justified. If the people want independence, they will get independence. This is not a once in a life time opportunity, far from it. Hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 They were never not going to approve it. Do you really think they would try quash a future democratic process? That's one way to get to civil unrest, and civil unrest would be justified. If the people want independence, they will get independence. This is not a once in a life time opportunity, far from it. Time to grow up pal. They were never not going to approve it because they truely believed a NO vote will win. What was the polling % in favour of YES at the time? Civil unrest. In Scotland? GTF. Spain has more chance of civil unrest than here, yet they are not going to entertain a referendum. Just because a SG put forward a referendum bill does not mean that Westminster has to agree to recognising it. We cant force them to just as we cant force them to accept a CU. Democratic process. Is that when you get Obama to break protocol to intervine against independence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Time to grow up pal. They were never not going to approve it because they truely believed a NO vote will win. What was the polling % in favour of YES at the time? Civil unrest. In Scotland? GTF. Spain has more chance of civil unrest than here, yet they are not going to entertain a referendum. Just because a SG put forward a referendum bill does not mean that Westminster has to agree to recognising it. We cant force them to just as we cant force them to accept a CU. Democratic process. Is that when you get Obama to break protocol to intervine against independence? You clearly don't know have the slightest idea what you're talking about. If the Scottish Parliament passes a bill and Westminster blocks the will of a democratically elected parliament there will be mass protests on the street, and I would part of them. It's never ever going to happen though, Westminster is not that daft. It would turn practically every Scot into a nationalist, me included. No idea what you're slavering about Obama either. Time for you to go lie down now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 They were never not going to approve it. Do you really think they would try quash a future democratic process? That's one way to get to civil unrest, and civil unrest would be justified. If the people want independence, they will get independence. This is not a once in a life time opportunity, far from it. No need to actually quash it if you can set your own rules. Do you remember 1979, Lex? We narrowly voted for a devolved parliament, but our democratically expressed view was ignored because non-voters & dead people on the register were effectively counted as no voters. If we vote "No" this time, I would fully expect any future referendum to be subject to a condition like "50%+1 of the total electorate must vote yes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I don't think there will be any civil unrest, no matter what the result. Do people really think there will riots in the street over a Yes or No vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 What will happen after it all? Well, when it's all done, the cybernats will blow up. Their make-believe wannabe political careers will be over. Forced back into the reality that they are not politicians, they will inevitably grow beards, drink more and cry every third evening watching Braveheart on mute preferring the soundtrack be provided by their world cup '98 compilation cassette. Just minutes after the result is confirmed they will do what they do best, immediately 'shooting up' on their facebook and twitter addictions, promising a relentless uprising. The uprising will consist of a website, some t-shirts, and a customary 'piece' on Reporting Scotland/Scotland today programmes. This self-described nationalist political 'racehorse' will be mocked by everyone else and nicknamed 'Massive Bereavement' by John McCririck due to it's quick death after a fallen race. Britain will continue as was. The 'white paper' will be published for hundreds of years alongside other brothers grimm fairytales such as Hansel and Gretel. Nicola Sturgeon will melt. Such bitter, much sadness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 ^^^ wid ye, aye? Here's the deal, they "gave" us this referendum because they thought they'd win easily. They didn't gerrymander, they didn't force us to have it earlier than Salmond wanted etc. Now if Salmond tries to hold another referendum after the 2016 election then Westminster would quite rightly tell him to go f**k himself, but when a second referendum is actually feasible, say around 2030, there is absolutely no reason to think that the UK government would try to gerrymander it. You're a smart guy, but basing your evidence on something that happened 35 years ago rather than the 2 Scottish referendums that occurred after that(1997 and 2014) screams of you actually wanting it to happen simply to validate your own anti-Westminster agenda, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 No need to actually quash it if you can set your own rules. Do you remember 1979, Lex? We narrowly voted for a devolved parliament, but our democratically expressed view was ignored because non-voters & dead people on the register were effectively counted as no voters. If we vote "No" this time, I would fully expect any future referendum to be subject to a condition like "50%+1 of the total electorate must vote yes" I don't remember a time before I was born, no. I do know we had no parliament then though. Any future referendum will be debated in Holyrood by Scottish MSP's. The bill will be set and voted on there, as it was this time. If Westminster interferes in the slightest they will win it for the nationalists, so they won't. The inescapable fact is that with a devolved parliament Scotland can have independence if it wants it. All we have to do is vote in a majority of MSP's who will pass a referendum bill - as we did - and then vote yes in the referendum when it comes. Simple now, simple in 10 years, simple in 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 You clearly don't know have the slightest idea what you're talking about. If the Scottish Parliament passes a bill and Westminster blocks the will of a democratically elected parliament there will be mass protests on the street, and I would part of them. It's never ever going to happen though, Westminster is not that daft. It would turn practically every Scot into a nationalist, me included. No idea what you're slavering about Obama either. Time for you to go lie down now. Ooo mass protest on the streets. Which streets are these protests going to be on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I don't think there will be any civil unrest, no matter what the result. Do people really think there will riots in the street over a Yes or No vote? No there won't be. However, if a future Scottish Parliament passed a second referendum bill and Westminster interfered in any way, there would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Don Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Don't be daft. There will be another referendum in 20 years (give or take 5 years). Westminster governments will be unable to reject it if the SNP keep getting elected in Scotland. I'm pretty sure Salmond has already stated that there shouldn't be another one until a generation has passed (20 odd years basically). Lets hope we don't need to have this discussion... Scotland would be unlikely to be in the same 'asset rich' health and no doubt rUK would be keen to offload us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 ^^^ wid ye, aye? Here's the deal, they "gave" us this referendum because they thought they'd win easily. They didn't gerrymander, they didn't force us to have it earlier than Salmond wanted etc. Now if Salmond tries to hold another referendum after the 2016 election then Westminster would quite rightly tell him to go f**k himself, but when a second referendum is actually feasible, say around 2030, there is absolutely no reason to think that the UK government would try to gerrymander it. You're a smart guy, but basing your evidence on something that happened 35 years ago rather than the 2 Scottish referendums that occurred after that(1997 and 2014) screams of you actually wanting it to happen simply to validate your own anti-Westminster agenda, right? No, I want us to vote Yes in 2014. I'd rather not find out what Westminster is capable of after a No vote I don't remember a time before I was born, no. I do know we had no parliament then though. Any future referendum will be debated in Holyrood by Scottish MSP's. The bill will be set and voted on there, as it was this time. If Westminster interferes in the slightest they will win it for the nationalists, so they won't. The inescapable fact is that with a devolved parliament Scotland can have independence if it wants it. All we have to do is vote in a majority of MSP's who will pass a referendum bill - as we did - and then vote yes in the referendum when it comes. Simple now, simple in 10 years, simple in 20 years. I'm sure that Libby will be along in a minute to point out that Westminster can do what it wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Don Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Having lived away from Scotland for over 18 years and not eligible to vote I haven't taken as much interest in the Independence debate as I probably should have but it really isn't that well publicised in England and not all in Spain or Holland. Seeing the levels of seethe and anger from both sides on Twitter, facebook etc. over the last couple of months got me wondering, what will happen afterwards? I am not talking about if it is a "Yes" or "No" vote what happens to the governing of the country. I am talking about how will the Scottish people get on with each other. If it a "No" vote will there be animosity from the "Yes" side or will that be that and everything returns to normal immediately? Will there be repercussions from down south, they would surely own Scotland outright from then would they not? Would they (London Parliament) even need to pretend to pay lip service to any wants and needs to the Scots? Would further attempts at Independence be tried? Would the "No" side expect changes to reflect how the vote had gone? If it is a "Yes" vote would the "No" side immediately emigrate to flee a land that had no future and couldn't survive on it's own? Would there be further attempts to reunite with the rest of the UK? Would the "No" side accept the vote and knuckle down to living in their new smaller country? Would the "No" side expect changes to reflect how the vote had gone? Would both sides be able to accept whatever is voted for, stay pals and get on with each other, or would we get extremists starting trouble?Will family and friends that know how each other voted be able to continue to get on afterwards? This has maybe been covered in other threads but I have barely read anything about independence on P&B and am too lazy to wade through 9 pages of topics so apologies if it has been covered and I have asked loads of questions so no need to answer all of them if you don't want to. I am genuinely curious what people think about this because I haven't read anything about it. Is everyone too scared to think that far ahead and what might happen? Edited to move a question. I personally, will not be having any congenial social interaction, with those I know to have voted no. I guess it will be, sun, sand and frolics, in a foreign land for me. I will also be deeply embarrassed, when the subject is brought up by the bewildered locals, of whichever country I run off to. If I were to stay, social unrest would be putting it mildly, so I will take my heavy heart elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 No, I want us to vote Yes in 2014. I'd rather not find out what Westminster is capable of after a No vote I'm sure that Libby will be along in a minute to point out that Westminster can do what it wants. It's almost as if a lot of Nationalists, in the event of a no vote, are secretly hoping for Westminster to come down hard so they can whine about how "we told you so" Can you clarify why you'd expect some "condition" on a second referendum or are you just in a bizarre attempt at point scoring on behalf of our REAL project fear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I personally, will not be having any congenial social interaction, with those I know to have voted no. I guess it will be, sun, sand and frolics, in a foreign land for me. I will also be deeply embarrassed, when the subject is brought up by the bewildered locals, of whichever country I run off to. If I were to stay, social unrest would be putting it mildly, so I will take my heavy heart elsewhere. ^^^ Is going to "seem upset" in the event of a no vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 No there won't be. However, if a future Scottish Parliament passed a second referendum bill and Westminster interfered in any way, there would be. Really would like to know which streets your going to protest on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Can you clarify why you'd expect some "condition" on a second referendum? 1) Previous experience in Scotland (see above). 2) In many ways, rUK need us more than we need them (further diminishing of a fading imperial power, the loss of our financial contribution to Westminster, losing somewhere to keep their nukes etc) Edit to add: 3) Westminster has only ever given in to demands for referenda that they think that they will win. The only one they weren't confident of was 1979. As mentioned above, that's the one they "fixed" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Previous experience being a referendum 35 years ago, despite 2 further referenda containing no such condition? So basically, you're talking shite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Previous experience being a referendum 35 years ago, despite 2 further referenda containing no such condition? So basically, you're talking shite? See my edit to my post above, which was made before your erudite contribution. However, I would point out this well known quote Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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