HibeeJibee Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 "The Stables Plan" - named after a Keith official and HL heid honcho - envisaged 2 divisions of 10 playing only 18 league games (down from 34!). This would be supplemented by the Highland League Cup having sections introduced and held at the start the season; title play-offs (1-4); promotion play-offs (9 / 2-4); and the reintroduction of the North Challenge Cup at the end of the season, possibly also starting with sections IIRC. There was then a variation on this involving playing 3 times for 27 league games, and getting rid of some of the playoffs and sections. One plan also suggested not admitting 20th club, i.e. running 10-9 initially - I can't remember which. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLichtie86 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Lets see how a 14 - 10 league system would look like based on this seasons positions and introduction of colt teams, NCL and Junior teams. Highland League Championship 14 teams - 26 Games Buckie Thistle, Cove Rangers, Brora Rangers, Fortmartine, Fraserburgh United, Forres Mechanics, Turriff United, Wick Academy, Inverurie Loco Works, Keith, Clachnacuddin, Lossiemouth, Nairn County, Huntly. Highland League 2nd Division 10 teams - 27 games Deveronvale, Rothes, Fort William, Strathspey Thistle, Banks O'Dee, Invergordon, Aberdeen Colts, Inverness CT Colts, Ross County Colts, Halkirk United Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Since this is all seems to be under the purview of the HFL, i'm going to guess that any HFL2 would rigidly enforce the SFA licencing scheme for entry. Which seems unfair considering you can enter the SoS/EoS feeders without one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Capital Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Caley Thistle attempted to field a reserve side in the Highland League in 1994, while an Aberdeen 'A' won it in the early 20th century. Can't see the HFL being open to it now. If anything splitting the leagues in two seems a non-starter regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 On 2017/05/26 at 18:31, FairWeatherFan said: Since this is all seems to be under the purview of the HFL, i'm going to guess that any HFL2 would rigidly enforce the SFA licencing scheme for entry. Which seems unfair considering you can enter the SoS/EoS feeders without one. The way it could happen quite easily in procedural terms would be if the HFL2 divisions (using the NCL + North superleague as the basis for regional feeders?) didn't have mandatory licensing and were comparable to the EoS and SoS leagues with licensed champions having a shot at promotion each season. The reason that won't happen any time soon is that turkeys like Rothes and Fort William won't vote for an early Christmas in a Highland league context and the SFA really don't care that much about any of this and are not interested in implementing an all-encompassing continental style pyramid and in providing the incentives needed for the NCL and North Juniors to clamber on board rather than doing the same old same old year after year. The interesting things to watch at the moment in "pyramid" terms are Bonnyton Thistle from Kilmarnock in the SoS league and whether Kelty and Bo'ness United actually follow through on the EoS applications that are alleged to have been made or it was all just a case of calling the SFA and SJFA's bluff where the licensing process is concerned to try to make full SFA membership and licensing possible for more east and west superleague clubs. Further change will be gradual and will take a few decades to unfold. Nothing sudden and radical is likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwd440 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Some years ago on the NonLeague Matters Forum, somebody came up with an innovative idea to restructure the Conference North & South divisions to reduce travelling while maintaining fairness and a reasonable number of matches. The idea was too revolutionary for the majority of posters, and obviously it was never picked up, but a few of us thought it had merit. The main objection was that it 'looked at bit like the American NFL Conference model', and a few people couldn't get their head round having a 42 team league table. However it occurred to me that it might have some value if applied to an enlarged 20 team Highland League. In the original idea, 42 teams were split into 6 geographic sectors of 7 teams. Teams would play all the teams in their own sector and those in the two other nearest sectors. Highland League geography doesn't help to replicate this perfectly, and would lead to some groupings being much stronger than others. Instead of geographic sectors, I had a go at producing 4 groups of equal strength, based on last seasons league placings. In my example I've promoted Banks o'Dee and relegated Montrose (sorry Montrose). As they've just been promoted, I've ranked BoD as the weakest team, which I know is somewhat unrealistic. So the groupings could be: A Montrose, Turriff Utd, Keith, Nairn County, Rothes B Buckie Thistle, Formartine Utd, Clachnacuddin, Huntly, Fort William C Cove Rangers, Fraserburgh, Wick Academy, Deveronvale, Strathspey Thistle D Brora Rangers, Forres Mechanics, Inverurie Locos, Lossiemouth, Banks o'Dee Each team plays against everyone in their own pool and everyone in two of the other pools. So: A would play B and D B would play A and C C would play B and D D would play C and A Teams would therefore play 8+10+10=28 matches. Results would go towards producing a 20 team league table (the groups are only used to produce a fixture list) The system isn't perfect. One downside is that the odd tasty match wouldn't happen - e.g. in my example there would be no Montrose v Cove as A don't play against C. Also if there is an imbalance between the pools, then some teams may have a slight advantage by avoiding one or two of their rivals. Perhaps this imbalance could be ironed out with some end of season play off matches. Top 4 or top 8 maybe? If this was the case, the champions would end up having played 30 or 31 matches, which I think is close to the ideal. Anyway, that was the gist of the idea. I will now retreat to a safe distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLichtie86 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Sorry. But you can get tae f**k with that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer doon south Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Bit harsh RedLichtie86. But your right not the greatest of solutions. Seems over complicated and unbalanced over the course of a season. I believe a team should have to play every other team in the league to call themselves champions. That's why things like Super rugby format doesn't really work practically. One team could face weaker teams while another has all the tougher opponents overall. Hardly fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northboy Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 3 hours ago, gwd440 said: So the groupings could be: A Montrose, Turriff Utd, Keith, Nairn County, Rothes B Buckie Thistle, Formartine Utd, Clachnacuddin, Huntly, Fort William C Cove Rangers, Fraserburgh, Wick Academy, Deveronvale, Strathspey Thistle D Brora Rangers, Forres Mechanics, Inverurie Locos, Lossiemouth, Banks o'Dee But Montrose aren't in the Highland League! It's a bit disrespectful to throw in a team currently second in League Two just to make the numbers work. Of course, Banks o' Dee aren't in the Highland League either but their joining is a more realistic possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwd440 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 No disrespect to Montrose is intended, and I'd hoped it was obvious that their presence was just for illustration purposes. (Actually, I also hadn't noticed how well they were currently doing!) There has been discussion in the past about how the Highland League would cope with 19 or 20 teams, and the lack of expansion coupled with no relegation is a barrier to BoD's progress. Worst case scenario is that one of the northerly League Two teams is relegated and replaced by the Lowland League champions. It's unlikely to happen this season, as Montrose, Peterhead and Elgin are all doing quite well, but I believe Montrose were in the running for a time last season, and it is likely to crop up again in the future with somebody, so this was just a different idea to throw in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northboy Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 1 hour ago, gwd440 said: No disrespect to Montrose is intended, and I'd hoped it was obvious that their presence was just for illustration purposes. (Actually, I also hadn't noticed how well they were currently doing!) There has been discussion in the past about how the Highland League would cope with 19 or 20 teams, and the lack of expansion coupled with no relegation is a barrier to BoD's progress. Worst case scenario is that one of the northerly League Two teams is relegated and replaced by the Lowland League champions. It's unlikely to happen this season, as Montrose, Peterhead and Elgin are all doing quite well, but I believe Montrose were in the running for a time last season, and it is likely to crop up again in the future with somebody, so this was just a different idea to throw in. It's not realistic for the Highland League to plan any expansion based on the possible relegation of any 'north' teams from the SPFL. They need to look for teams moving up but there aren't many teams genuinely interested apart from BOD. I can't see the Highland League operating with 19/20 teams as a single division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Northboy said: It's not realistic for the Highland League to plan any expansion based on the possible relegation of any 'north' teams from the SPFL. They need to look for teams moving up but there aren't many teams genuinely interested apart from BOD. I can't see the Highland League operating with 19/20 teams as a single division. Why not? The last scheduled fixtures are on the 14th of April. An extra 2 or 4 games could easily be fitted in if the play offs were marginally adjusted. If needed in a bad winter they could cancel the regional cups. I don't know anyone who wants a 2x10 Highland League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Shaker Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 The SHFL will roll on as a single division until there's more than 20 teams in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinabear Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 There must be so many meaningless games in the highland League with no relegation and the same sides cast adrift at the bottom. I really don't understand why there wouldn't be an attempt to set up a HL2 made up of North Juniors or NCL. It would give many sides so much more to play for and ambitious sides in the Juniors and NCL to progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Shaker Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 The league's been full of meaningless games since Brora appeared with money. A league that produced no repeat winners for a decade after Huntly's fifth title in a row has now been reduced to little more than a rich mans plaything, with Brora and Formartine's financial backing, and Cove's ability to attract talent, skewing things badly at the top. The assumption that there's ambitious sides in the NCL and juniors has never been fully tested. Some talk the talk - like the SHFL clubs did when they voted for the pyramid - but few seem keen to walk the walk. The junior sides admitted of late - Locos, Formartine, Turriff and Strathspey - have been a real mixed bag. The league has willingly become part of the pyramid, but despite voting for it to happen, it doesn't seem too comfortable with its position in the league ladder. Until we fix our attitude to taking part in a national league, I'm not sure where we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdTheDuck Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 On 11/15/2017 at 10:33, gwd440 said: Some years ago ... ...Perhaps this imbalance could be ironed out with some end of season play off matches. Top 4 or top 8 maybe? If this was the case, the champions would end up having played 30 or 31 matches, which I think is close to the ideal. Anyway, that was the gist of the idea. I will now retreat to a safe distance. The reason US sport has split leagues, divisions, playoffs and a limited number of pro teams is to maximize interest in said sports and by maximize interest I mean bring in as much money as possible. None of it is intended to solve a fixture or travel problem. While a few extra British Pounds would be handy, I doubt having regional divisions would add any extra fans through the gate until the sharp end of the season and the playoffs themselves and I'd imagine it would be the usual suspects who would benefit anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afca32 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Thought I'd just post here rather than starting a new thread. Is the social club at Keith still running and open to all? Heading along tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Can anyone explain why the HFL refuse new, licenced, applicants eg Banks O'Dee, and get away with it? What is the SFA's take on this, or don't they care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Burnie_man said: Can anyone explain why the HFL refuse new, licenced, applicants eg Banks O'Dee, and get away with it? What is the SFA's take on this, or don't they care? I don't think BoD have ever actually applied to join the HFL since they gained their licence, so the question so far has not arisen. What would happen if they decided to take it up with the SFA, I don't know. I suspect if push came to shove, the HFL would just run with 19 teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 11 hours ago, Cyclizine said: I don't think BoD have ever actually applied to join the HFL since they gained their licence, so the question so far has not arisen. What would happen if they decided to take it up with the SFA, I don't know. I suspect if push came to shove, the HFL would just run with 19 teams. That's my understanding, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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