Conspiracies

[Zetterlund]

The thing that makes the WTC7 case more interesting is that it's not just the crazies and YouTube truthers on about it, there are thousands of experts saying the official version of events is literally impossible. They're putting their careers and reputations on the line campaigning for a new investigation so they can't all be tin foil hatters.

[Ned Nederlander]

9 minutes ago, Zetterlund said:

The thing that makes the WTC7 case more interesting is that it's not just the crazies and YouTube truthers on about it, there are thousands of experts saying the official version of events is literally impossible. They're putting their careers and reputations on the line campaigning for a new investigation so they can't all be tin foil hatters.

I'm quite happy that it came down 'legitimately' based on the fact that the alternative is utter moon-howling nonsense.

Anyone who believes the 'US government' would embarrass & humiliate themselves in such a massive, tragic and utterly pointless way is quite frankly wired to a fucking Mars Bar.

[throbber]

It wasn't the US Government though.

[welshbairn]

18 minutes ago, Zetterlund said:

The thing that makes the WTC7 case more interesting is that it's not just the crazies and YouTube truthers on about it, there are thousands of experts saying the official version of events is literally impossible. They're putting their careers and reputations on the line campaigning for a new investigation so they can't all be tin foil hatters.

The one I heard was red fragments found were proof of chemical explosives. Then they turned out to be primer paint. Thing about the conspiracy theorists is they never accept they made a mistake, just go on to the next thing which is hopefully unprovable either way.

[Zetterlund]

5 minutes ago, Ned Nederlander said:

I'm quite happy that it came down 'legitimately' based on the fact that the alternative is utter moon-howling nonsense.

Anyone who believes the 'US government' would embarrass & humiliate themselves in such a massive, tragic and utterly pointless way is quite frankly wired to a fucking Mars Bar.

That's my point though - they're not just howling at the moon shouting about the Illuminati, they're conducting scientific investigations which prove (to them anyway) that the official story is impossible. Just a couple of weeks ago there was some head of civil engineering at a US university who investigated the computer models etc used in the official report, and concluded the probability of it leading to collapse was zero percent. Another raving madman conspiracy theorist?

I have no time for YouTube truthers etc but show me some scientific evidence and I'm open-minded enough to at least find it interesting.

[Zetterlund]

17 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The one I heard was red fragments found were proof of chemical explosives. Then they turned out to be primer paint. Thing about the conspiracy theorists is they never accept they made a mistake, just go on to the next thing which is hopefully unprovable either way.

There are also people who believe that no planes even hit the buildings, or that they were unmanned and the intended passengers were taken to Area 51. There are plenty of actual conspiracy theorists, but that term doesn't have to apply to anyone questioning it on the basis of independent investigation and evidence.

 

[Shandon Par]

You'd have to have a hat made of the finest tin foil if you watched this then thought the Americans were capable of any sort of 9/11 inside job. 

[statts1976uk]

A lot of people put a lot of faith in the burn temperature of Jet A1 against the melting point of steel. They are perhaps unaware that Jet A1 can reach a burn temperature of over 2000c.

[jamamafegan]

The thing that makes the WTC7 case more interesting is that it's not just the crazies and YouTube truthers on about it, there are thousands of experts saying the official version of events is literally impossible. They're putting their careers and reputations on the line campaigning for a new investigation so they can't all be tin foil hatters.

This. The building came down after "a decision was made to bring it down in a controlled fashion." To bring a building of that size down in a controlled fashion would require months of planning and preparation. It couldn't just be done shortly after a decision was made.

And I have also seen tons of comments from expert structural engineers who claim it is impossible for the buildings to come down like that after being hit by a plane.

And, are we supposed to believe that the terrorists knew how to fly a Boeing into a building? You would have to be trained for that. And why won't the Pentagon release the footage?

People are scared to believe that this is anything other than a terrorist attack, and rightly so. It would be the most shocking revelation of all time. People are quick to dismiss the idea because it's such a disturbing idea - and the current "truth" is easy to accept. I'm not saying it's a full on government plot, but anything is possible and it's good to keep an open mind.

[welshbairn]

Jesus f**k, it would take about half an hour to learn how to crash a plane into a building, it's landing the fuckers safely that's tricky. Governments are doing all sorts of nefarious stuff all the time, but you c***s spend all this energy looking at stuff it's blindingly obvious they didn't do, and had zero motive to, just in case one of the countless debunked theories happens to be true. When have America ever bothered looking for an excuse to start a war in the Middle East, far less by killing a lot of their rich buddies? This total ignoring the basics of evidence to pursue some pointless quest of the holy grail of youtubeland really does my head in.

[Shandon Par]

21 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

 

 

This. The building came down after "a decision was made to bring it down in a controlled fashion." To bring a building of that size down in a controlled fashion would require months of planning and preparation. It couldn't just be done shortly after a decision was made.

And I have also seen tons of comments from expert structural engineers who claim it is impossible for the buildings to come down like that after being hit by a plane.

And, are we supposed to believe that the terrorists knew how to fly a Boeing into a building? You would have to be trained for that. And why won't the Pentagon release the footage?

People are scared to believe that this is anything other than a terrorist attack, and rightly so. It would be the most shocking revelation of all time. People are quick to dismiss the idea because it's such a disturbing idea - and the current "truth" is easy to accept. I'm not saying it's a full on government plot, but anything is possible and it's good to keep an open mind.

 

 

That's total nonsense. There's simple explanation and clear truths. It's no more than an example of how society is struggling to disseminate the mass of information out there. People struggle to identify the truth and sane reporting from baseless bollocks. 

 

[yoda]

29 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

People are scared to believe that this is anything other than a terrorist attack, and rightly so. It would be the most shocking revelation of all time. People are quick to dismiss the idea because it's such a disturbing idea - and the current "truth" is easy to accept. I'm not saying it's a full on government plot, but anything is possible and it's good to keep an open mind.

 

 

Well, no 

People tend believe that there was some massive government conspiracy behind the 9/11 attacks because the idea that a ragtag bunch of nobodies managed to fly airliners into buildings, killing 3000 people, and essentially changing the course of the 21st century for the USA and much of the rest of the world, is a disturbing idea.

The idea that the US government (or US security agencies) managed to carry out 9/11 and bury the truth, despite their track record of inefficiencies and leaks, is preposterous.

[jamamafegan]

Jesus f**k, it would take about half an hour to learn how to crash a plane into a building, it's landing the fuckers safely that's tricky. Governments are doing all sorts of nefarious stuff all the time, but you c***s spend all this energy looking at stuff it's blindingly obvious they didn't do, and had zero motive to, just in case one of the countless debunked theories happens to be true. When have America ever bothered looking for an excuse to start a war in the Middle East, far less by killing a lot of their rich buddies? This total ignoring the basics of evidence to pursue some pointless quest of the holy grail of youtubeland really does my head in.

^^^ seething

And for absolutely no reason.

[jamamafegan]

So we've had one person provide an argument against be conspiracy regarding the jet fuel - the rest of you are dismissing it as bollocks and nonsense. I've table my points, please do the same with yours or jog on.

[Lex]

It's remarkable how many seemingly well educated people believe in the 9/11 conspiracy. It's quite clearly utter bunk.

Any rational analysis of evidence will conclude that the official report was pretty much right. Virtually all experts in engineering/demolition agree with this. Those who don't are seeking money from book deals etc.

For anyone still curious, 7 would recommend the Nat Geo documentary on the conspiracies which blows them all out the water one by one. Or the SGU's podcast on them.

ETA I'm referring to the 'inside job' theories. The fact that this was a huge intelligence failure by both the CIA and FBI is quite true. As was the subsequent pardon given by the US to their Saudi allies. The Saudi state was quite clearly the most guilty of any middle eastern states in the whole affair. They were the oil allies though, Iraq and Afghanistan weren't. Therefore the Saudis get off scot free and Iraq and Afghan got the retaliation.

[HoBNob]

At the risk of coming across as a fruit loop, I am leaning towards the "inside job" camp when it comes to 9/11. I've seen some videos and pictures recently which certainly make me question how it really happened.

Planes flew into tower, Tower fell down, you're welcome.

Whatever you make of the collapse of the two towers, the way WTC7 came down was inexplicable. Even if we accept that the small fires were hot enough to compromise the structure, and that cheap Chinese steel was used, and the original construction workers were cowboys and always pished, it wouldn't explain how it came down so uniformly across its whole floorplan at the same time. Something definitely fishy there IM(unqualified)O.

I'd imagine when the built tower number seven then didn't factor in the stress of two big cunting towers falling down right next to it. That probably didn't help it, nor did parts of the tower falling into it.

When that plane hit the Pentagon, did the Pentagon become the Square?

This man kens.

This. The building came down after "a decision was made to bring it down in a controlled fashion." To bring a building of that size down in a controlled fashion would require months of planning and preparation. It couldn't just be done shortly after a decision was made.

And I have also seen tons of comments from expert structural engineers who claim it is impossible for the buildings to come down like that after being hit by a plane.

And, are we supposed to believe that the terrorists knew how to fly a Boeing into a building? You would have to be trained for that. And why won't the Pentagon release the footage?

People are scared to believe that this is anything other than a terrorist attack, and rightly so. It would be the most shocking revelation of all time. People are quick to dismiss the idea because it's such a disturbing idea - and the current "truth" is easy to accept. I'm not saying it's a full on government plot, but anything is possible and it's good to keep an open mind.

How exactly does a tower fall down when it's been smashed by a plane out of interest? You'd have to be trained how to turn a plane, not the most out of this world thing to do tbh.

And you do realise the Pentagon is right beside an incredibly busy motorway? It'd be like someone smashing into the side of the m25 at rush hour. Do you not think someone would have came out and said it wasn't a plane? f**k knows when they were meant to have planted all those plane pieces with the whole world watching the pentagon also?

People are quick to dismiss the idea because not all people watch youtube for an hour and get easily influenced by some fruit loop. How on earth the government would keep such an operation a secret would be impossible.

As the poster above says there was serious and catastrophic failings between the cia and the fbi, that doesn't make a catchy youtube video though does it?

[craigkillie]

The biggest problem with all the claims about the way the towers fell is that they are trying to make projections based on a one-off extreme event.  How many times in history has a commercial airliner flown directly into a tower?  They can construct models and do simulations all they want, but these models can never account for every single variable.  These unaccounted for extremes are the same reason that bridges occasionally collapse despite being seemingly well-designed.

If they built replica Twin Towers and flew a plane full of people into them a million times, there would probably be a million different outcomes.

[jamamafegan]

Grant228, have you seen how WTC7 came down? Go and look. Does that look like how a building would come down because of buildings falling down next to it? No, it doesn't. It looks like a standard demolition, like the demolition of a high rise in Glasgow. It's extremely questionable.

[jamamafegan]

And does anyone have any suggestions as to why the Pentagon won't release the footage of the crash? Surely by doing so it would more or less put an end to the conspiracy?

[vikingTON]

10 hours ago, Zetterlund said:

That's my point though - they're not just howling at the moon shouting about the Illuminati, they're conducting scientific investigations which prove (to them anyway) that the official story is impossible. Just a couple of weeks ago there was some head of civil engineering at a US university who investigated the computer models etc used in the official report, and concluded the probability of it leading to collapse was zero percent. Another raving madman conspiracy theorist?

I have no time for YouTube truthers etc but show me some scientific evidence and I'm open-minded enough to at least find it interesting.

Provide names please for the "they" in your otherwise hilarious rap lecture, or the academic who presumably published his findings in a cutting-edge journal - given that is what all major academics do when they find iut something, not prattle about it to utter losers like yourself via YouTube.

Looking forward to those justifications, naturally. 

10 hours ago, Zetterlund said:

There are also people who believe that no planes even hit the buildings, or that they were unmanned and the intended passengers were taken to Area 51. There are plenty of actual conspiracy theorists, but that term doesn't have to apply to anyone questioning it on the basis of independent investigation and evidence.

 

An entirely meaningless claim. Some tragic loser sitting in his Y-fronts in a basement can subject events to "independent investigation" - you're at best claiming that Vladimir Putin isn't dictating your findings. That still doesn't make your utter bollocks conclusions more or less credible though. 

8 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

 

 

This. The building came down after "a decision was made to bring it down in a controlled fashion." To bring a building of that size down in a controlled fashion would require months of planning and preparation. It couldn't just be done shortly after a decision was made.

And I have also seen tons of comments from expert structural engineers who claim it is impossible for the buildings to come down like that after being hit by a plane.

And, are we supposed to believe that the terrorists knew how to fly a Boeing into a building? You would have to be trained for that. And why won't the Pentagon release the footage?
 

 

 

Please cite the peer-reviewed journals in which these "expert structural engineers" attest to that claim, chump. Given that that is the intellectual basis of their field of expertise. 

If that utterly hilarious, straw man claim forms the basis of the rest of your mental breakdown then I feel sorry for you. But not too sorry though; you were a tragic, pint-sharing loser of a human being anyway tbh. 

Quote

People are scared to believe that this is anything other than a terrorist attack, and rightly so. It would be the most shocking revelation of all time. People are quick to dismiss the idea because it's such a disturbing idea - and the current "truth" is easy to accept. I'm not saying it's a full on government plot, but anything is possible and it's good to keep an open mind.

^^^ word salad

Edited September 21, 2016 by vikingTON