Scots punters wagered £4,200,000,000 on FOBT's in 1 year !

[SS-18 ICBM]

CRITICS claim betting is particularly high in poorer areas with high levels of unemployment, as figures revealed the largest amount gambled last year was in Glasgow Central.

Punters become addicted to the casino-style games.

Tom Ross http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk

SCOTS gamblers spend the equivalent of £1000 for every man and woman in the country on high stakes slot machines.

New research reveals that punters north of the border splash out far more per head than the English and Welsh on the fixed odds betting terminals in bookies’ shops.

Yesterday, campaigners and politicians voiced concerns about the machines which have been branded “crack cocaine” for gamblers.

They allow punters to bet up to £100 every 20 seconds on computer-generated versions of casino games such as roulette, poker and blackjack.

Figures show Scots staked £4.2billion on the touchscreen machines last year – £993 for every adult in the country.

That equates to £802 per head of population overall, compared to £644 in England and £511 in Wales.

The shock figures were produced by the Campaign for Fairer Gambling using betting industry data.

Report author Adrian Parkinson, who worked as a regional machine manager at Tote until 2008, said: “I was responsible for testing the machines between 1998 and 2001, then launching them on the high street.

“By 2003, I saw the problems coming through, with feedback from shop managers that punters were getting addicted to these machines.

“In 2008, I was asked to formulate quite an aggressive marketing policy promoting FOBTs, but I refused.

“It wasn’t socially responsible to entice people to play games where there was a possibility they might become addicted.

“I don’t dispute that for some people they are fun and enjoyable, but they represent high risk, particularly in areas of deprivation where people are gambling with money they can’t afford to lose.”

Gamblers Anonymous Scotland said: “This is a major issue. Most of the people who are coming to us now have a problem with roulette machines.

“People become hooked, it’s almost like they get an instant fix. Some people with debts see them as a solution – but they only make things worse.”

There are more than 4000 FOBTs in bookmakers’ shops in Scotland.

Campaigners claim spending is particularly high in poorer areas with high levels of unemployment.

Their figures, broken down into parliamentary constituencies, show the biggest amount gambled was in Glasgow Central, where £243million was staked last year.

In Glasgow North East – which includes Sighthill, Possilpark, Milton and Springburn – more than £137million was fed into the machines.

Glasgow North East MP Willie Bain said: “There are 36 bookmakers with 131 fixed odds betting terminals, raking in £4.2million in an area where the average wage is under £17,600 a year.

“I am concerned about the number of these machines and the frequency with which people play them, going through stacks of money in a very short time.

“Labour is calling on the government for a review.

“At a time when living standards are under unprecedented threat, companies are preying on some of the poorest constituencies in the country.”

A spokesman for the Salvation Army, long-term opponents of gambling, said: “With fixed odds betting terminals, you keep feeding money in and lose track of what you are spending.

“People are losing thousands of pounds a day and there is no way that anyone can afford to lose that amount of money.

“It is not ‘entertaining’ or ‘fun’ if you have lost money that you needed for your rent, heating and food.”

FOBTs were introduced in Britain in 2001. Last year, Harriet Harman said that Labour had made a mistake by allowing them when in government and admitted that they were “ruining the high street and people’s lives”.

But bookies argue that the £4.2billion figure includes money won on the machines then fed back in again.

Kate Miller, of William Hill, said: “The numbers being bandied around are turnover and 97 per cent is returned to the customer. That is a clear distinction that needs to be made.”

The bookies’ figures suggest that, after paying out winners, each machine makes them around £900 a week.

Ciaran O’Brien, of Ladbrokes, said: “The average spend on a machine session is less than £7. The stakes figure is very misleading.

“With a very low margin FOBTs are a popular and fun product, generating a lot of tax and protecting employment.”

An Association of British Bookmakers spokesman agreed that the figures were “misleading”

He added: “We have always believed that customers have the right to decide how they spend their money.

“We take our social responsibilities extremely seriously which is why we voluntarily contribute £5million each year for the research, education and treatment of problem gamblers.

[Lex]

They are horribly addictive and designed to be so. There won't be tougher regulations on them for the simple reason that gambling makes the government a lot of money and costs them very little. It's not like alcohol which costs the government a fortune in health care and violent crime.

If anything the gambling regulation is likely to be lessened. I wouldn't be surprised to see FOBT's in pubs within the next 5 years. ' Cash in and cash out using your bank card, simply insert here and let the fun begin '

[Thistle_do_nicely]

There's a guy in work who regularly gambles away a lot of money. Sometimes he wins big, other times he loses £40 - 50 that he's staked, then buggers off to the cashpoint to chase his losses.

I've tried explaining to him that a) he should only gamble what he can afford, if he has to gamble and b) it'd be worth keeping a notepad of how much money he's put in, at what odds, and what he's won/lost so he can get an idea of just how much of his own money he's losing over X months, but he still uses his overdraft for the machines frequently, and can't be arsed keeping track of his betting.

Massive problem, and something that really needs to be cracked down on. Edit: and certainly not actively encouraged!

I put a tenner in once when I went to the bookies with him out of curiousity, and surprise surprise none of my numbers came up. The temptation to stick another tenner in was incredible, and though I could resist it I can see how others can find it highly addictive, particularly my friend if he did manage to get a big win. Instant gratification etc. Never playing one of those machines again, thanks largely to seeing threads on P&B about the things, when you know how much bookies rake in each year from them it puts a different light on things. They've already got £10 from me that I'll never get back, and that's with 1 play on 1 machine, and at 10% of the maximum bet you can put on!

Edited January 13, 2013 by Thistle_do_nicely

[Supras]

There was quite an interesting Panorama on it recently but even beyond FOBT anyone who watches football will know the saturation of online betting companies.

You often hear of people winning big or being furious because team X, player X cost them their coupon. I have little time for this bullshit, people who brag about their winnings are exactly the type of people who regularly lose big and fucking nobody will actually make a profit out of it over the long term bar 0.00001% of "professional gamblers".

I stay away from all of it.

[SS-18 ICBM]

There was quite an interesting Panorama on it recently but even beyond FOBT anyone who watches football will know the saturation of online betting companies.

You often hear of people winning big or being furious because team X, player X cost them their coupon. I have little time for this bullshit, people who brag about their winnings are exactly the type of people who regularly lose big and fucking nobody will actually make a profit out of it over the long term bar 0.00001% of "professional gamblers".

I stay away from all of it.

You are a wise man Supras where gambling is concerned. Gambling in all its shapes and forms is definitely a mugs game for all but a very tiny fraction of a per cent of the masses who indulge regularly in the process. I have an uncle who lost his career, house and wife due to his compulsive gambling. Serious gambling addicts don't make good partners, friends or relatives due to their constant mood swings and rampant unreliability.

[Pride_of_the_Clyde]

Purely in terms of FOBTs, their users are sheep. A lot of younger guys are using them as their mates do. With their exposure to Xboxes and such like, you can't tell me that roulette is an enjoyable game.

But that's the product they've got them in to.

[Guest honestrae95]

I use the roulette machines occasionally and the maximum ive ever put in is a tenner. I have to say i don't think i've ever made a loss off them. I usually make about £10 and cash in the voucher, not being too greedy. I think thats the problem with the majority of people, they expect to win huge amounts every time. Some days you just have to accept that breaking-even is the best you'll do and not fritter away endless amounts of cash trying to make a huge profit. I generally only bet £1 a time, with 25p on 4 seperate squares. I get £9 back if my number comes in, which i think is quite decent really.

[Adam]

FOBTs are the worst thing to happen in this country for a generation, in my opinion.

The amount of young people going through the doors of GA each month is staggering, and in my experience, nine out of ten people under 30 are going because they are addicted to these machines. I know guys that have lost thousands upon thousands through these machines, yet wouldn't have a clue how to do a Lucky 15 or a football coupon. Gambling has changed massively since the new legislation was introduced in 2001.

I think it was mid-table that posted a link to the legislation, it was a fairly long read but really worth it.

I'm addicted to these machines. I used to do fairly well with lower league football betting as I felt I had a slight advantage over the bookie, or the layer on Betfair, but I had to quit gambling altogether as I was putting everything I won, and more, into the online casino roulette or the FOBTs when I was in shop. They're poisonous.

[CM.]

Shove loose change in the machines in shop now again and if I turn it into a note I'm happy and will take it.

Never put anything more in, stopped it when I lost what, to me at the time what with me only being 18, was a big sum of money on Paddy Power roulette. Most of it was collective winnings but still hurt like f**k.

[Marshmallo]

0.00001%

[Fraser Fyvie]

I use the roulette machines occasionally and the maximum ive ever put in is a tenner. I have to say i don't think i've ever made a loss off them. I usually make about £10 and cash in the voucher, not being too greedy. I think thats the problem with the majority of people, they expect to win huge amounts every time. Some days you just have to accept that breaking-even is the best you'll do and not fritter away endless amounts of cash trying to make a huge profit. I generally only bet £1 a time, with 25p on 4 seperate squares. I get £9 back if my number comes in, which i think is quite decent really.

What's "quite decent" about it? The odds are against you, you should be getting more than £9 if one comes in.

[mid-table]

What's "quite decent" about it? The odds are against you, you should be getting more than £9 if one comes in.

You have attempted roulette trolling before, it didn't work, what makes you think it will work this time?

[Thistle_do_nicely]

I use the roulette machines occasionally and the maximum ive ever put in is a tenner. I have to say i don't think i've ever made a loss off them. I usually make about £10 and cash in the voucher, not being too greedy. I think thats the problem with the majority of people, they expect to win huge amounts every time. Some days you just have to accept that breaking-even is the best you'll do and not fritter away endless amounts of cash trying to make a huge profit. I generally only bet £1 a time, with 25p on 4 seperate squares. I get £9 back if my number comes in, which i think is quite decent really.

That reminds me, I went in to the bookies with my gambler friend from work and he stuck about £40 in the roulette. Was down to about £27 after a couple of plays then ended up on about £90, I was like "Nice one, so this is when you cash out aye?" and he completely blanked me while sticking another £50 on - which returned about £7! He kept playing including his winnings and ended up with f**k all despite being about £50 up at one point.

It's madness, but people like that who don't cash in when they're ahead are cash-cows for the bookies. Edit: and given how addictive the machines are there's no shortage of such cash-cows either.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Thistle_do_nicely

[Fraser Fyvie]

You have attempted roulette trolling before, it didn't work, what makes you think it will work this time?

How is that trolling? Do you believe roulette offers "decent" returns?

Wow.

[Tamdunk]

I bet small stakes just for fun, usually just a couple of 2.50 bets a week. Losing a 5er every weekend isn't that much fun, but I dont spend a lot on it. It actually makes me cheer on some teams in england which makes it a little more enjoyable to watch. Would say I'm prob about £10 up in the last year thanks to that free money skybet thing that was posted on here recently.

[KD1711]

Roulette machines are horrendous, so is chasing your losses. Sometimes you have to take the warning signs being dealt to you when you are given a couple losers in a row or get back up when chasing and breaking even, but it still isn't enough.

My cousin summed it up perfectly to me once, wasn't happy with being up fifty quid and then he said "why you not happy with that? You work a day for fifty quid."

The FOBTs are definitely mechanical rapists. Hate them.

[Supras]

0.00001%

You're right. It's probably much less than that.

Everyone loses, really.

[Slacker]

I've always known that these are quite addictive. But £4.2bn a year, in this country, is staggering. I never use them now, unless I'm in with a mate and have a few coins in my pocket (nothing more than £3) to put in. Everytime I walk past the bookies it's the same old faces in there, day after day. Scary stuff.

[Loki]

The William Hill where I used to work only turned a profit because of these machines. I have seen people get up to just over £2k and walk away with nothing. i have only ever played them on one occasion and that was to play Rocky for a bit of craic. They have a 92% pay out, but a large majority of those payouts are small wins that they know punters will play through.

The younger players see it as no different to playing a computer game.

One time one punter came in and put £900 in to the machines via his bank card. He won £500 (lost £400) and went in to a strop as we didn't have the money to give him (shop had just opened and our shop was never busy, so had no money). He then put the money back in and lost it alll, then called me a cunt! The only time ever I was glad someone lost at these machines.

I seen one guy take the shop for about 5k over four days at Xmas time. Wasn't local and was never seen again. Must have been some kind of scam. He even tipped whoever way paying him out.

[mid-table]

It is worth pointing out that, as much as what has been said is true in that they are horrible machines that have ruined thousands of lives, the comments from the bookies about the stats in the article being misleading are true as well.

Turnover of £4.2billion means relatively little in itself, except that if you say an average ROI of 96% (97.3% for roulette and on average 92% for everything else), that equates to a loss of £168million.

I could start with £100, play for an hour, and cash out £100. My loss would be £0 but my turnover could be £10,000 in that time.

It's not reasonable to say that the potential losses are £4.2billion either, as people would not have the capital for that to happen.

How is that trolling? Do you believe roulette offers "decent" returns?

Wow.

Before I put you on ignore, roulette has an overround 2.78%. Fruit machines on the FOBTs have an overround of 8.7%. Your average shop football coupon has an overround of 12.5%. An average horse race at SP has an overround of about 25%. In terms of forms of gambling, roulette offers some of the most decent returns available in terms of value. It's because it's a high turnover activity that the losses from it are so high. The only betting I can think of that has a better rate of return is blackjack, and betting against your mates. Even an absolute 100% book on betfair with 3 outcomes all at 2/1 has an overround of 3.45% with a 5% commission rate.

Edited January 15, 2013 by mid-table