sonsanorak Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Roddy said it I think. Along the lines of the current site being 15 acres in size with the potential to sell 10 acres for much the same price as the youngs farm plots. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) Our current site is around 10 usable acres. Brabco are projecting/hoping to achieve £500k per acre at Youngs Farm. That doesnt mean that the 10 acres at the rock are worth £5million. For a start the land at the Rock wouldn't be suitable for residential building without serious remedial work given that it's a former industrial site. That eats into the price per acre massively as any prospective buyer would need to factor in clean up costs. Our current site isnt worth £5million. It certainly has some value but Lomond Gate and the price aimed for at Youngs Farm isnt really a fair reflection of the value of Castle Road for housing. Clearly it has value - not least of which to enable the council's redevelopment plans and the plans that Historic Scotland have to make better use of the castle as a tourist attraction. There's also possibly some interest in the land from a housing point of view. Any future use of the current site has to deal with it's previous history as an industrial site. Edited October 20, 2017 by BallochSonsFan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 He did actually say that, I questioned whether the profits from the facilities at the new stadium would go to the club even if we were renting the ground and he said "Yes. And remember the only reason you would be renting is to avoid a big tax bill". As for your last point, Brabco own Dumbarton Football Club Limited, they could practically do what they like with the ground and profits. Oh I know that they could. Like the Steedmans did at Clydebank. As for the tax bill this will presumably be corporation tax on the profit from the sale of the Rock. But if that profit is put back in to the creation of the new ground then Dfc Ltd could claim roll over relief on that corporation tax afaik. If however the money is not put back in to the company there would be a tax liability 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flash Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, Nowhereman said: Oh I know that they could. Like the Steedmans did at Clydebank. As for the tax bill this will presumably be corporation tax on the profit from the sale of the Rock. But if that profit is put back in to the creation of the new ground then Dfc Ltd could claim roll over relief on that corporation tax afaik. If however the money is not put back in to the company there would be a tax liability So why does that mean there would be tax if DFC owned the stadium? What you’re saying looks like the opposite. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo71 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 CMIIAW but i think any tax payable would be for the transfer of shares/ownership from BRABCO to DFC.I think the sale of the current site and the investment in YF cuts out any tax on the actual sale of the land. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 So why does that mean there would be tax if DFC owned the stadium? What you’re saying looks like the opposite. There would be corporation tax on the profit on the sale of the ground. But if the profit was re invested then relief could be claimed. But the plan seems to be that the profit will go to the owners therefore the relief couldn't be claimed. That's certainly the way I read it after last nights meeting 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 There's much written here that is reminiscent of several people commenting on a game of football with each having their own version. The planning application looks like a pretty big hurdle. To grant housing permission for such a swathe of green belt land looks a tall order. This was pretty much admitted last night and there was talk of an appeal to the Scottish Government. That could be costly but I don't get the impression that Brabco would be unduly discouraged by that. Legal opinion is split on the Golden Share. From my personal knowledge I do actually think that it would prevent the sale of the land so long as the club remains in operation. This however, is the crucial point. If Brabco fail with this application, I fear what the next step for DFC would be. All the markers were put down last night. An unmanageable overdraft, Oustanding repairs in the region of £250,000*, several directors' loans due for repayment, safety certificates issued on the condition that the club is moving to a new stadium. The phrase was used that there was 'no white knight in the wings'. *The 'ball park' figure mentioned last night for repairs to the wall, the 'dip', the infrastructure of the stand and upgrading of floodlighting. There are several scenarios that could arise at the point of planning consent for Dalmoak and it's enabling development being rejected. Unfortunately, none of them is that we can continue at the Rock and it's back to as you were. An insolvent company cannot continue to trade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFarPost Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 On 20 October 2017 at 22:46, Howlin' Wilf said: There's much written here that is reminiscent of several people commenting on a game of football with each having their own version. There's much written here that is reminiscent of several people commenting on a game of football with each having their own version. The planning application looks like a pretty big hurdle. To grant housing permission for such a swathe of green belt land looks a tall order. This was pretty much admitted last night and there was talk of an appeal to the Scottish Government. That could be costly but I don't get the impression that Brabco would be unduly discouraged by that. Legal opinion is split on the Golden Share. From my personal knowledge I do actually think that it would prevent the sale of the land so long as the club remains in operation. This however, is the crucial point. If Brabco fail with this application, I fear what the next step for DFC would be. All the markers were put down last night. An unmanageable overdraft, Oustanding repairs in the region of £250,000*, several directors' loans due for repayment, safety certificates issued on the condition that the club is moving to a new stadium. The phrase was used that there was 'no white knight in the wings'. *The 'ball park' figure mentioned last night for repairs to the wall, the 'dip', the infrastructure of the stand and upgrading of floodlighting. There are several scenarios that could arise at the point of planning consent for Dalmoak and it's enabling development being rejected. Unfortunately, none of them is that we can continue at the Rock and it's back to as you were. An insolvent company cannot continue to trade. A few clarifiers on this: 1) Following the meeting, we're working on an FAQ so that we're not reliant on 'different versions'. 2) What was said at the meeting by Roddy was that if planning permission is not granted, he would likely recommend an appeal; and by Chris that an appeal would be unlikely (because of the time and expense involved). 3) On the Golden Share, the legal opinion we have sought is in agreement that, while not optimally drafted, it can help prevent sale of the land outwith the security of the club. As you say, that can only apply if the club is in operation. 3) What was said by everybody is that there are big challenges in remaining at the Rock. The overdraft was not described as 'unmanageable' (and isn't unusual for small clubs managing the vagaries of cash-flow on slender resources). The oncoming capital costs are significant, and the lack of a sink fund is a structural weakness which needs to be addressed alongside others. 4) DFC has washed its face financially for many years, and can continue to do so with wise management - but the contingencies and need for capital have to be addressed. Moving to a new stadium with tested revenue prospects and the removal of those liabilities is one solid way forward, provided that it proves both doable and sustainable. 5) If that does not happen, other solid strategies are needed. This is something the trust is well aware of, looking at options on, will be discussing with the club, and is re-structuring itself to help meet (working to become a Community Interest Company). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 The Herald has this piece this morning. The Reporter had more detail yesterday. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15616389.Dumbarton___s_offshore_owners_admit_greenbelt_ground_move_unlikely/?ref=fbshrOn Brabco saying that it's unlikely they would appeal, to quote Mandy Rice Davies, they would say that wouldn't they? It may be true that this is the case, but even if it weren't they would still say that it was in advance of the decision, in order to concentrate minds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Howlin' Wilf said: The Herald has this piece this morning. The Reporter had more detail yesterday.http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15616389.Dumbarton___s_offshore_owners_admit_greenbelt_ground_move_unlikely/?ref=fbshr On Brabco saying that it's unlikely they would appeal, to quote Mandy Rice Davies, they would say that wouldn't they? It may be true that this is the case, but even if it weren't they would still say that it was in advance of the decision, in order to concentrate minds. That was quite a hatchet David Leask brandished there, he's certainly not painting a pretty picture of Brabco. And for the avoidance of doubt, the only current 'community' aspect of DFC is the fact that the club is sited in one; unless an individual or grouping is prepared to pay a sizeable fee then no seat at the Boardroom table awaits. There has not been a AGM for several years now, and I honestly would not have a clue who is currently Company Secretary - maybe it's still John Benn. And for years now the big decisions seem to have been made by two people, the guy in charge and the guy looking out at him from the mirror. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Quite heavy on the offshore stuff there and it doesn't really paint Brabco with any credibility, mentioning Andy Hosie and Ian Wilsons fairly dodgy dealings again. Safe to say that Brabco's PR has been utterly dreadful throughout the whole process, they must realise how they've damaged themselves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Here’s the nitty gritty part of the Reporter article. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 #WonderfulWednesday 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Froxy signed up until the end of the season. Belter. Now let's play him in his natural role a bit more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Utterly. Delightful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I love you, Jimmy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghead ranter Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverton End Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Queen of the South game rescheduled for Tuesday 28th November. Pretty crap that a league game is now played midweek to accomodate the diddy cup on a Saturday 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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