Sons' sorrow

[George Parr]

22 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

It's not only there, the midfield is pisspoor, hence the back four continually lamping those long hopeful and invariably hopeless long balls.  I'm fed up reading on here about us having players who should be good enough to keep us in this division.  Really ?  Who, other than Alan Martin, would cause a sideways glance from other Championship clubs ?

As for the midfield, Todd has thus far been an utter lightweight non-event; Thompson and Stanton do not look Hibs and Celtic-class respectively, ie they are very ordinary and play in fits and starts; ditto Stirling, but again add lightweight; Stevenson looks done at this level and carries an attitude whilst Gallagher is honest, limited and crocked.

Craig Pettigrew has been slagged-off and lampooned on here, it's time some others were put under the spotlight - happy to oblige.

I've argued that they're good enough to keep us up but it's extremely difficult to put forward a defence of players who allowed a junior side to hound them out the national cup competition.

So we're probably looking at wholesale changes again in the summer, one way or another. At the moment I would have no definite keeps for next season, just 'maybes' and 'bin' - have an open mind towards every position.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I've argued that they're good enough to keep us up but it's extremely difficult to put forward a defence of players who allowed a junior side to hound them out the national cup competition.

So we're probably looking at wholesale changes again in the summer, one way or another. At the moment I would have no definite keeps for next season, just 'maybes' and 'bin' - have an open mind towards every position.

Including Martin? He's one of the best goalkeepers I've seen at Dumbarton. Albeit I'm not that old and competition isn't exactly Oliver Kahn but still.

I like J. Thomson. No denying he had a shocker on Tuesday but he's generally our best outfield player most weeks. One thing that is seriously hindering him is the movement infront of him. He'll win the ball, drive forward and have absolutely fuckin no one to pass to.

Buchanan and Smith also get pass marks from me, as does the centre mid Docherty.

Stanton, Barr, Stevo, Stirling, Todd, Robert Thomson and Fleming have all been very meh so far but they aren't bad players, apart from maybe Stevo being finished. We need much more from them.

[Jan Vojáček]

I'd be spending 69p purchasing Martin a lifetime contract if this was Football Manager. Genuinely not another 'keeper in the league I'd have over him.

[George Parr]

6 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

 

Including Martin? He's one of the best goalkeepers I've seen at Dumbarton. Albeit I'm not that old and competition isn't exactly Oliver Kahn but still.

I like J. Thomson. No denying he had a shocker on Tuesday but he's generally our best outfield player most weeks. One thing that is seriously hindering him is the movement infront of him. He'll win the ball, drive forward and have absolutely fuckin no one to pass to.

Buchanan and Smith also get pass marks from me, as does the centre mid Docherty.

Stanton, Barr, Stevo, Stirling, Todd, Robert Thomson and Fleming have all been very meh so far but they aren't bad players, apart from maybe Stevo being finished. We need much more from them.

 

Yeah, we probably would retain Martin but then again perhaps there is better out there, who knows.

[cameron2000]

Robert Thomson should be a definite keep. He is still adjusting to the level and show very good positioning and awareness but needs to work on his finishing. The amount of times he made brilliant runs on Tuesday just for a sideways pass to be chosen in favour was shocking.

[The Moonster]

I don't care about individuals any more. It's clear we don't have someone to produce a moment of magic to win us a game every week, so it's got to be about the team effort. We may not have individuals who would walk into other sides, but if the sum of those individuals can operate a bit better together then I honestly think we'll stay up.

Martin, Buchanan, Smith, Docherty, Barr, Gallagher and Fleming I'd keep at the moment. If Thommo can start putting chances away I'd keep him. If Stirling can involve himself in games for more than 5 minutes at a time I'd keep him. 

[DumbartonTheSons]

I'm not sure I would say we are inconsistent. I've seen us put in the exact same performance far too many times this season. We are reasonable at the back, though a lot of that is down to Alan Martin's heroics rather than good defending. It's unsurprising that in the only off game he had we lost comfortably. 

We have very, very little creativity in midfield, and our strikers have next to no service to work with. In saying that, when they do get a good chance, they normally fail to hit the net.

Having a look through the goals we've scored this season is an indication of why we are struggling. As 'Dumbartonthesons' points out, we actually create so little going forward that the goals we do score are quite similar.

Did we actually force the Bonnyrigg 'keeper into a serious save over the 180 minutes we faced him? I can't remember him making one I wouldn't have expected him to. That's where our issue lies.

Thumbs up to you for doing the work in noting our goals and the type of finishes they were. You're right, there does seem to be an unusually high number of penalties there, which oddly shows that we do actually get into the opposition penalty area on occasion.

Regarding your last point, I mentioned this to one or two folks I spoke to and I don't recall one off the top of my head, certainly not a big save anyway. I recall a tame Robert Thomson header being claimed by the Bonnyrigg goalkeeper in the first game, but such was the routine nature and ease with which he caught the ball, you'd be hard-pushed to class it as a save.

[DumbartonTheSons]

Including Martin? He's one of the best goalkeepers I've seen at Dumbarton. Albeit I'm not that old and competition isn't exactly Oliver Kahn but still.

I like J. Thomson. No denying he had a shocker on Tuesday but he's generally our best outfield player most weeks. One thing that is seriously hindering him is the movement infront of him. He'll win the ball, drive forward and have absolutely fuckin no one to pass to.

Buchanan and Smith also get pass marks from me, as does the centre mid Docherty.

Stanton, Barr, Stevo, Stirling, Todd, Robert Thomson and Fleming have all been very meh so far but they aren't bad players, apart from maybe Stevo being finished. We need much more from them.

I agree with this.

I'd happily, and actively look to, keep Martin, Smith, Buchanan and Docherty. I'd add Fleming to that list because we know what he can do, albeit with most others he hasn't shown enough of it this season.

Of the rest, none have done anywhere near enough to show that they're deserving of a contract next season, not mattering what division we're in.

I like Joe Thomson and when he plays, he's very, very good, but he too has been invisible in some games, but knowing his quality, he would probably be worth trying to retain for next year.

[The Moonster]

In the first Bonnyrigg game the keeper made saves from Fleming and Donald in the first half, both should've scored IMO.

[Jan Vojáček]

In the first Bonnyrigg game the keeper made saves from Fleming and Donald in the first half, both should've scored IMO.

They were decent saves, but I'd have expected any semi decent 'keeper to get them.

Look at how we got the chances too, the first was a long ball over the top that their centre-back misjudged, and the second was after the 'keeper spilled a poor Stirling cross.

To only have two real chances against a Junior side is bad enough. But for then both to be as a result of mistakes is criminal!

[Cruyff14]

I just want someone to show us something. A touch of genius, ala Mooney or Crilly, or a touch of Kev Nicoll passion. I know, however, that right now i'll see neither. Whether that's the managers fault is debatable, but it's the current state of affairs.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Cruyff14

[Cruyff14]

Even under McCabe, we were filling 2 buses to away games. A number of factors, including cost contributed to that, but I much preferred those days. 

[albundy]

I just want someone to show us something. A touch of genius, ala Mooney or Crilly, or a touch of Kev Nicoll passion. I know, however, that right now i'll see neither. Whether that's the managers fault is debatable, but it's the current state of affairs.

Sparky always seems passionate enough and despite only being able to jog, stevo does have quality on the ball (when he can arsed). For me there's a lot of other variables that can effect a players performances, confidence being the major one.

The manager can't kick every ball for the players but he can set out how he wants the team to play, sign the players that fit this ethos, coach them on how he wants to play, give them belief, choose the starting 11 and get them fired up before games.

Against bonnyrigg we seemed to lack drive, we had our top scorer playing as a defensive mid, on one sustained attack I counted 5 sons players staying back against the threat of one bonnyrigg player as we struggled to create chances, I absolutely blame the manager for all of that.

[sonsanorak]

Against bonnyrigg we seemed to lack drive, we had our top scorer playing as a defensive mid, on one sustained attack I counted 5 sons players staying back against the threat of one bonnyrigg player as we struggled to create chances, I absolutely blame the manager for all of that.

Who do you blame when our top scorer was moved up front but couldnt win a challenge, hold the ball up or make a chance ?

[squeezeboxson]

40 minutes ago, sonsanorak said:

 

Who do you blame when our top scorer was moved up front but couldnt win a challenge, hold the ball up or make a chance ?

 

Regardless of him being our top scorer Garry isn't always the best option up front. I blame the manager for taking off Thommo in what was one of his only half decent games. Things were working with him up front and when the manager changed things, it stopped working.

[microdave]

In recent years, we have picked up after New year so I thought I'd look at the points total after our current game tally of 15 from when things started to improve in 08/09.

08/09 P15 Pts 25 P36 Pts 57 Difference 32 points

09/10 P15 Pts 21 P36 Pts 48 Difference 27 points

10/11 P15 Pts 10 P36 Pts 40 Difference 30 points

11/12 P15 Pts 19 P36 Pts 58 Difference 39 points

12/13 P15 Pts 11 P36 Pts 43 Difference 32 points

13/14 P15 Pts 18 P36 Pts 52  Difference 34 points

14/15 P15 Pts 16 P36 Pts 34 Difference 18 points

15/16 P15 Pts 11 P36 Pts 37 Difference 26 points

16/17 P15 Pts 14 

Obviously there are flaws (I.e. It's not the halfway point of the season), but there are signs that players can take time to gel etc. I'm aware that this could be the season that the New year surge won't happen and that this group of players haven't been through this together before, but recent history suggests we can survive. Especially as we aren't currently in a relegation position. 

If I've learned one thing tonight, it's that Friday night ain't what it used to be. Especially since I actually enjoyed looking that up. #RocknRoll

 

Eta I was for leading the pitchfork brigade on Tuesday but I've let my head rule my head rather than my heart ruling it since then!

Edited December 9, 2016 by microdave

[The Moonster]

2 hours ago, Cruyff14 said:

Even under McCabe, we were filling 2 buses to away games. A number of factors, including cost contributed to that, but I much preferred those days. 

You much preferred watching us get humped at Elgin whilst the manager offered a fan a square go over competing in the Championship? I get that the away days were good fun back then, but the football is much better now. Plus, a lot of the grounds are fairly close to us now, which I think is a big reason for the lack of folk using the away buses. Obviously our away form has a large part in that too.

[Howlin' Wilf]

From this morning's Sun.

[Howlin' Wilf]

And also from the Sun.

[Boghead ranter]

18 minutes ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

From this morning's Sun.

I hope that paper gets sold at a reduced price, seeing as it's second-hand and all that.