BallochSonsFan Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I wouldn't directly compare my Saturday afternoon and Saturday evening sports but the growth of the Clan could certainly teach football something about the relationship between club and fan. Andy Galloway made an interesting point about how the English sell the romance of the FA cup, even in the early stages, compared to the way Scottish football sells the Scottish cup. We're so far behind when it comes to valuing and selling our game to the public. We can't expect to cherry pick the best aspects of whats around us and impose them wholesale on Scottish football but there's plenty lessons that the game up here could learn from. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benito Robles Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Whilst I agree with what you are saying the flashing lights, family friendly atmosphere and the mass amount of fan engaged activities that happen throughout the night do have an appeal for certain types of people (young families etc). I agree it's like comparing apples and oranges to a certain extent but the sad reality is that sport fans are choosing to attend the hockey over the football. There aren't many out there who can afford both so technically the popularity of these sort of sports can have an adverse effect on crowds at the likes of Dumbarton. I personally know some younger fans who are choosing to attend the hockey over the football at the minute. I'm not convinced that a high flying Sons team would see our crowds increase much at all. Less than 2 seasons ago we were in a Scottish Cup quarter final and fighting for a promotion play off spot and it didn't make a great deal of difference to home crowds. Fair enough. I disagree though, but respect your view. Where the Sons are failing in terms of marketing (how I hate that phrase), is that they're not shouting enough about what a success story they actually are. You guys have one of the most respected supporters trust in the country and the rise of the club is clearly linked to fans being involved. The club and its fans have to create a place where it all feels like home and by all accounts that's not happening. Moaning is easy. Christ, we did it for long enough at Clydebank before supporters got together and reformed the club and have made a decent fist of it. A club is not just about bricks and mortar, but you know that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghead ranter Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 The answer here is simple. Any outlet would want a fee for doing so, if indeed they are at all interested. There is an arrogance amongst football supporters that shops/people are just waiting to be exploited. The best marketing tool that any football club has is its team. A winning team helps sell bums on seats, replica shirts and so on. Dumbarton are punching way above their weight and are doing fantastically well, despite the moans. Being in the second tier and not being able to get your core support to have a substantial increase tells its own story. The daft idea to move your stadium needs now to be called into question. Why build a larger stadium if the present one cannot be used properly? Dumbarton FC as they stand just now is as goods as it gets, present league position notwithstanding. As I said earlier today, cherish what you have, because, trust me, it can evaporate so so quickly. That's the second time today that I've felt like giving you a greeny, so I did. I feel soiled now though, greenying a Bankie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleslie99 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 The problem isn't down to price just for Dumbarton, but it is an issue across Scottish football And the sfa needs to act as we are pricing nearly everyone out of the game. It's not just Dumbarton that can't fill our stadium and get bums on seats. Every club is the same, even the hallowed OF and the Scottish national team! As already been pointed out we constantly compare ourselves to the EPL which is ridiculous. Start again and have a model that works for us, not one that piggy backs on the success of our close neighbours over the border. On the subject of increased revenue, why can't Dumbarton turn into a community club. Rip up the grass, lay an artificial surface, the 1st team can train there, as can all the youth sides, let the ground out to the community, and all the local youngsters playing for local teams can use the facility. Maybe that will make them want to come and watch the 1st team playing on the pitch they train on. Don't shoot me.....it's just an idea! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 The problem isn't down to price just for Dumbarton, but it is an issue across Scottish football And the sfa needs to act as we are pricing nearly everyone out of the game. It's not just Dumbarton that can't fill our stadium and get bums on seats. Every club is the same, even the hallowed OF and the Scottish national team! As already been pointed out we constantly compare ourselves to the EPL which is ridiculous. Start again and have a model that works for us, not one that piggy backs on the success of our close neighbours over the border. On the subject of increased revenue, why can't Dumbarton turn into a community club. Rip up the grass, lay an artificial surface, the 1st team can train there, as can all the youth sides, let the ground out to the community, and all the local youngsters playing for local teams can use the facility. Maybe that will make them want to come and watch the 1st team playing on the pitch they train on. Don't shoot me.....it's just an idea! *Draws sword from holder* Don't get me started on AstroTurf. Horrific stuff It's an absolute fortune as well, £750k for a full pitch, we'd be lucky to get £750 from WDC! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 As a supporter of 45 years, here's my tuppence worth. In the 70s Dumbarton's attendances were roughly equivalent to Morton, Falkirk, Dunfermline and the likes. This was simply because the club had awoken from 50 years in the lower leagues and progressed to the top league and because football was still out there on its own as the preferred weekend entertainment of man and boy. After being relegated or 'reconstructed' in the mid 70s, despite the club always being in the top tier of the 'First division' or second tier, crowds dwindled and they did so much more so at Dumbarton than the other clubs mentioned above. This was never more evident than in the Premier League campaign of 1984/85 where we struggled to attract 2500 for games against an Aberdeen team managed by Alex Ferguson containing Leighton, Miller, McLeish and Strachan and had won a European trophy. That season Dumbarton had the lowest ever premier league crowd of about 950 for a match v Morton, a record only beaten around 20 years later by Gretna in their Fir Park days. It is a deep seated problem and one which has only shown sporadic anomalies to a general downward trend. Yes, a more proactive and public facing administration would help in a marginal way. Yes, initiatives like some that have been mentioned would help in a small way too. Posters advertising for games in local businesses? It has been happening for nearly 15 years! Donald Fullarton does them faithfully and the businesses who display them keep the club in the public eye. Clubs like the Sons are struggling every bit as hard to survive as local independent shops are. There may not even be an answer to getting more fans along - it could be that we are witnessing the last hurrah for clubs who can't entice 1000 fans through the gate. If there is a way forward it is definitely getting younger people interested. That could start with some positive vibes emanating from the club. I haven't noticed many recently. The heady trip to Aberdeen with a travelling support of more than 650 and the Murray masks seems pretty long ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleslie99 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 *Draws sword from holder* Don't get me started on AstroTurf. Horrific stuff It's an absolute fortune as well, £750k for a full pitch, we'd be lucky to get £750 from WDC! The modern stuff is actually not bad, having played on very new parks lately it is excellent on comparison to how it used to be. Benburb, scotstoun both top class. I know grass is still the preferred option but in terms of moving forward and getting kids playing 4G Is the answer, also stops games being called off for the wet stuff! WDC are funding 2 New pitches in the area, Argyll and East End. Surely as the local football team we could get some funding. If not we could sell Willie Gibson and buy about 4 pitches! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the snudge Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Just disband it's aww pish 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 The answer here is simple. Any outlet would want a fee for doing so, if indeed they are at all interested. There is an arrogance amongst football supporters that shops/people are just waiting to be exploited. The best marketing tool that any football club has is its team. A winning team helps sell bums on seats, replica shirts and so on. Dumbarton are punching way above their weight and are doing fantastically well, despite the moans. Being in the second tier and not being able to get your core support to have a substantial increase tells its own story. The daft idea to move your stadium needs now to be called into question. Why build a larger stadium if the present one cannot be used properly? Dumbarton FC as they stand just now is as goods as it gets, present league position notwithstanding. As I said earlier today, cherish what you have, because, trust me, it can evaporate so so quickly. Great post, mate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Excellent post which I fully agree with on most points. The only thing I'd tend to disagree with is enjoying the atmosphere of the hockey more than the football. I have attended 3 Braehead Clan games and there's just something about it I find a bit cheesey and at times I find myself cringing. Whilst it is a great night out I couldn't see myself becoming a regular nor would I like football to go down that route in terms of the atmosphere. That's entirely personal though and I can fully understand why families choose to attend the hockey over a baltic Saturday watching St Mirren or Dumbarton. For me though it's only really a one off type of thing that I enjoy in moderation. Despite me personally finding it all a bit cheesey there is a lot to be learned from the likes of the Braehead Clan. Absolutely everything revolves around the paying customer and they go all out to ensure you have good night out. That's the one thing outside of the exciting, fast paced sport on offer that I really do like about it. Unfortunately they clearly have more money at their disposal for the likes of marketing, even before they had become as popular as it is today. They have the backing of some pretty huge companies in Intu and numerous outlets that are based in the shopping centre. I feel that this makes it quite hard to compare the two. They must be taking in an absolute mint! FWIW do the Clan give out free tickets for school kids in the Paisley area? Their popularity seems to be absolutely booming at the minute. Any time I've been in attendance the arena looks completely full with the hockey team attracting more fans than the likes of Falkirk and of course their local fitba club St Mirren. That worries me slightly... One of the great contradictions I find unique to football supporting, is that I actually prefer standing on a crumbling terrace in an old, open ground than I do sitting in a comfy seat in a modern arena with the amenities that those offer. Maybe it's a reflection of my general outlook on life, but standing in the shed at Holm Park close enough (and empty enough) to hear the players swearing at each other is more enjoyable to me than it was watching from the away end of Celtic Park last week, the fish suppers from the concessions kiosk nowhere near as interesting as a pie from a wee dookit window. I'd therefore hate to see the kind of Americanised fan interaction that one sees at hockey and basketball games become part of Scottish football, though I accept that comfier stadia and more novelty for the fans may be beneficial in the long run. Or maybe I'm just a grumpy b*****d. The new stadium idea, well, we've talked about this over and over and over. The fact remains that the club does not have the level of support to justify a ground so large and gambling the club's future chasing rainbows is careless in the extreme, but that's none of my business... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 The modern stuff is actually not bad, having played on very new parks lately it is excellent on comparison to how it used to be. Benburb, scotstoun both top class. I know grass is still the preferred option but in terms of moving forward and getting kids playing 4G Is the answer, also stops games being called off for the wet stuff! WDC are funding 2 New pitches in the area, Argyll and East End. Surely as the local football team we could get some funding. If not we could sell Willie Gibson and buy about 4 pitches! Oh aye, I know it's considerably better than the hockey pitch 1g stuff, I've played at Scotstoun as well and it (by the standards of Astro) very decent. In the past few months however I've seen three guys suffer very serious injuries as a result of landing awkwardly on it, it just doesn't have the give you get with a grass park. Personally I ended up out for 10 weeks twice as a result of the stuff, it's like running on concrete. The bounce of the ball is also wrong! I wouldn't have an issue with training on it - that makes sense - but games should be on grass, it's an awful lot safer. The only Astro-pitch I've actually been on which is ok is the hybrid pitch at the rugby club in Milngavie. It's got a cushioned layer and feels a lot more natural. I don't know if that's a rugby only thing or if football can be played on it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 One of the great contradictions I find unique to football supporting, is that I actually prefer standing on a crumbling terrace in an old, open ground than I do sitting in a comfy seat in a modern arena with the amenities that those offer. Maybe it's a reflection of my general outlook on life, but standing in the shed at Holm Park close enough (and empty enough) to hear the players swearing at each other is more enjoyable to me than it was watching from the away end of Celtic Park last week, the fish suppers from the concessions kiosk nowhere near as interesting as a pie from a wee dookit window. I'd therefore hate to see the kind of Americanised fan interaction that one sees at hockey and basketball games become part of Scottish football, though I accept that comfier stadia and more novelty for the fans may be beneficial in the long run. Or maybe I'm just a grumpy b*****d. The new stadium idea, well, we've talked about this over and over and over. The fact remains that the club does not have the level of support to justify a ground so large and gambling the club's future chasing rainbows is careless in the extreme, but that's none of my business... Aye same here, it's why I don't enjoy away games in this division as much as I did when we were in the diddy leagues. Give me the collapsing toilets of Central Park, or getting hit with a ball whilst buying a pie at Cliftonhill over trips to modern, 'impressive' facilities like Almondvale (and it's flushing toilets) or the restaurant grade pie stall at Falkirk. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Tell you what's guid at Almondvale? The swanky wraps and posh sarnies they lay out in a wee side room downstairs for the journos. I was stuffing my face with creamed cheese and chutney and all sorts when I was there doing the Challenge Cup final a few seasons back. Other than that, it's the very epitome of a shite modern stadium; far from rail and bus links, miles from the town centre and pubs, too large for the team who occupies it, soulless and utterly featureless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonsational Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Lol im such a rip roaring c**t it turns out most people hold similar opinions to me in some respect. Away n eat yer curry. On the point of it being volunteers who are doing all these nights that fine and somthing to be encouraged.However in the mean time ide suggest trying to be more fan focussed in your activitives would yield better results. My gripe is with pur employed officials board or whatever they arent doing enough. We need to try harder to grow our fan base for a whole host of reasons. What income do the club get from free tickets to kids? Future income, the seats are empty at present anyway so thats zero net loss. Braehead clan are a really good example they are pulling the kids in to great effect. Now if you can get that amount of interest in what is not really a major sport surely we can do somthing for the sons. Lots more needs to be made of the competition as it is and less on comparison with other countries. On the SFA helping with ticket price, im not sure if it would work but could we not ringfence some of their sponsorship money and money raised by the national team to then bring down the price of gate entry at all clubs? It would likely mean a drop in league position winnings but may boost attendances and the club wouldnt lose out as part of the ticket is subsidised. Eg tickets are 7 quid. Sfa pays 3 quid to the club. Club still operates on the basis of 10 quid a punter. Possible higher attendances sk greater earnings however draw back would be a reduction in end of season prize money. Our somthing along these lines. Edited December 1, 2015 by sonsational 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Sonsational hates curries, eh? That's the weirdest thing I've ever seen on the Internet. If you don't like Indian food then you can just go and live in Siberia, you fucking communist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimistic Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Anyone selling the top will need their cut too, which means it'll either cost folk more in these shops than it would straight from the club or Dumbarton sell to them at a lower price and thus lower the profit margin for the club.I know fine that outlets would want a cut, but currently our tops are no cheaper at the club than they are in sports direct, so if they were sold at the same price in sports direct and being seen, yes, Dumbarton's profit would be less on a singular item, but hopefully selling more, but it is showing the next generation another choice, mum's and dad's don't just regularly walk past our hidden away stadium on a regular basis, but they will when it's the town centre or st James's retail park, certainly should be trialled Edited December 1, 2015 by optimistic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Tell you what's guid at Almondvale? The swanky wraps and posh sarnies they lay out in a wee side room downstairs for the journos. I was stuffing my face with creamed cheese and chutney and all sorts when I was there doing the Challenge Cup final a few seasons back. Other than that, it's the very epitome of a shite modern stadium; far from rail and bus links, miles from the town centre and pubs, too large for the team who occupies it, soulless and utterly featureless. I guess everywhere's got to have one redeeming feature, I'm pleased I'll be one of the few to benefit from it! On the shirts debate, why not make the online shop more of a presence. Perhaps do a sale, or special offer and stick it all over Twitter and Facebook. I know I'm a bit odd likes, but I collect obscure football and 'hipster' football shirts for Fives, recently I've been in a Nordsjaelland goalkeeper top and Carlisle United home. Just because I saw them on Twitter at a good price and I hate big clubs. You wouldn't get more obscure in southern England than a Sons' top. On top of that it's original, cool, retro and the badge has an elephant on it. I mean if I was living in Tunbridge Wells or Leamington Spa it'd be the first thing I'd buy! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Lol im such a rip roaring c**t it turns out most people hold similar opinions to me in some respect. Away n eat yer curry. On the point of it being volunteers who are doing all these nights that fine and somthing to be encouraged.However in the mean time ide suggest trying to be more fan focussed in your activitives would yield better results. My gripe is with pur employed officials board or whatever they arent doing enough. We need to try harder to grow our fan base for a whole host of reasons. What income do the club get from free tickets to kids? Future income, the seats are empty at present anyway so thats zero net loss. Braehead clan are a really good example they are pulling the kids in to great effect. Now if you can get that amount of interest in what is not really a major sport surely we can do somthing for the sons. Lots more needs to be made of the competition as it is and less on comparison with other countries. On the SFA helping with ticket price, im not sure if it would work but could we not ringfence some of their sponsorship money and money raised by the national team to then bring down the price of gate entry at all clubs? It would likely mean a drop in league position winnings but may boost attendances and the club wouldnt lose out as part of the ticket is subsidised. Eg tickets are 7 quid. Sfa pays 3 quid to the club. Club still operates on the basis of 10 quid a punter. Possible higher attendances sk greater earnings however draw back would be a reduction in end of season prize money. Our somthing along these lines. You've spent the majority of your posts absolutely berating the trust for coming up with good event ideas, claimed it's some sort of Tory secret members club and seem obssessed with what was a cracking offer for fans to enjoy a pre-match curry for an excellent price. Those people you have been berating are volunteers who put more into the club than you ever will. So aye, rip roaring c**t of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottylintonstowel Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Once we have overcome Alloa in the cup next stop QOS in front of another huge home support. The final beckons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I guess everywhere's got to have one redeeming feature, I'm pleased I'll be one of the few to benefit from it! On the shirts debate, why not make the online shop more of a presence. Perhaps do a sale, or special offer and stick it all over Twitter and Facebook. I know I'm a bit odd likes, but I collect obscure football and 'hipster' football shirts for Fives, recently I've been in a Nordsjaelland goalkeeper top and Carlisle United home. Just because I saw them on Twitter at a good price and I hate big clubs. You wouldn't get more obscure in southern England than a Sons' top. On top of that it's original, cool, retro and the badge has an elephant on it. I mean if I was living in Tunbridge Wells or Leamington Spa it'd be the first thing I'd buy! I play 5-a-side every couple of weeks and always wear a Sons strip. It attracts a fair bit of attention... Them - What team is that then? Me - Dumbarton Them - Is that a Scottish team? Me - Aye Them - What league are they in? Me - Championship Them - Have they got a Championship in Scotland? Me - Aye Them - So how long have you been a Dunfermline supporter? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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