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Sons' sorrow


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Regardless of the ins and outs of staying up / getting relegated and who wants what we don't really have much of a say in it.  It's down to the players to get the work done and hopefully we can get a much needed result tomorrow against Falkirk.  Going to be interesting to see how bad Gallagher's injury is.  I love Jazza Ewings but he's definitely going to be a bit rusty having spent most of the season as a coach. If we do need him for the play-offs these two games will be good to get him back up to speed.

 

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Threads an odd read. We had some fans talk about how great it would be to get relegated and be back challenging for title every week, conveniently forgetting the seven years we got wedged into the second tier with absolutely mind numbing football and having to cut costs every season just to break even. 
Bizarre that folk think you'll save money by dropping out of a full team league into a part time league, surely if you're on the cusp of bankruptcy your goal has to be in the best financial division possible? And absolutely slashing your wages and getting pumped every week is better financially than dropping a league this summer? 
I would agree that looking from the outside that it all appears odd, but truth to tell it HAS all been a bit odd behind the scenes at this club for around a decade now.
What is happening now is that several issues are all coming to the boil, and with the greatest respect to yourself and the other perplexed posters on this thread, the previously serene-looking swan that has been DFC is now on a whitewater ride to who knows where.
There, that's about enough useless metaphors to be getting on with.
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1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I would agree that looking from the outside that it all appears odd, but truth to tell it HAS all been a bit odd behind the scenes at this club for around a decade now.
What is happening now is that several issues are all coming to the boil, and with the greatest respect to yourself and the other perplexed posters on this thread, the previously serene-looking swan that has been DFC is now on a whitewater ride to who knows where.
There, that's about enough useless metaphors to be getting on with.

I still don't quite understand why that means relegation would be preferred to staying up. 

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I still don't quite understand why that means relegation would be preferred to staying up. 
Maybe for the same reason that contestants on The Chase sometimes take the apparently strange decision to go for the minus offer - mitigating the immediate risk and trying to stay in the game for medium term gain.
But what will be will be, and we'll find out soon enough. I'll do as I always have, support the team from the first whistle and hope that if we stay up we can at least compete. And if we go down, so be it.
Both scenarios pose big challenges but staying up would certainly be more attractive from an investment point of view.
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3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

I still don't quite understand why that means relegation would be preferred to staying up. 

It's a Dumbarton 'thing', we have fans who don't think we belong in the 2nd Tier, yes really, the misery of trips to Montrose, Clyde or Berwick are infinitely more entertaining. :blink:

Not for me tbh, I want to see my team play at the highest possible level.

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20 minutes ago, Silverton End said:

It's a Dumbarton 'thing', we have fans who don't think we belong in the 2nd Tier, yes really, the misery of trips to Montrose, Clyde or Berwick are infinitely more entertaining. :blink:

Not for me tbh, I want to see my team play at the highest possible level.

Agree 100%

 

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It's a Dumbarton 'thing', we have fans who don't think we belong in the 2nd Tier, yes really, the misery of trips to Montrose, Clyde or Berwick are infinitely more entertaining. :blink:
Not for me tbh, I want to see my team play at the highest possible level.

Me too. I love us playing in the Championship and because we were playing at this level when I started going, I feel that this is our natural level. I know that doesn't make sense because we've had two thirds of my time playing below that level but hey ho!
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3 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Maybe for the same reason that contestants on The Chase sometimes take the apparently strange decision to go for the minus offer - mitigating the immediate risk and trying to stay in the game for medium term gain.
But what will be will be, and we'll find out soon enough. I'll do as I always have, support the team from the first whistle and hope that if we stay up we can at least compete. And if we go down, so be it.
Both scenarios pose big challenges but staying up would certainly be more attractive from an investment point of view.

 

41 minutes ago, Silverton End said:

It's a Dumbarton 'thing', we have fans who don't think we belong in the 2nd Tier, yes really, the misery of trips to Montrose, Clyde or Berwick are infinitely more entertaining. :blink:

Not for me tbh, I want to see my team play at the highest possible level.

 

3 minutes ago, microdave said:


Me too. I love us playing in the Championship and because we were playing at this level when I started going, I feel that this is our natural level. I know that doesn't make sense because we've had two thirds of my time playing below that level but hey ho!

You guys are bang on. Always aim as high as you can.

It seems like 5 minutes ago we had lots of fans complaining about the 'turgid football' in the SPL and fed up regarding dreadful 0-0 draws with Motherwell and Kilmarnock as decent results.  I completely saw the point they were making. According to those guys, dropping down a division would lead to us winning more games (it has, granted) playing better football (mibbes aye mibbes naw) and enjoying it all much more (case unproven). But the financial hits are huge, and the risks very large.

Well, here we are, a mere 8 years since Ryan Flynn skied a chance to sink the fucking Killie and we're still plodding around. The past season has been largely disgusting, and we're no closer to going back up. Maybe next year, maybe not, but who can tell.

The problem is once you go down, it's very easy to keep on slipping. Look at Clyde. So nothing is assured if you get relegated. Fight, bite and scramble for every yard in the playoffs and I hope we see you next year. DFC have always been very difficult, sometimes tremendous opponents to us in the last 6 years or whatever, and I think we all tip the hat to part time players making such a great job of it for so long.

For personal reasons, I hope Ayr Utd win L1, but will be rooting for you to pump the Rovers in the play off final, hopefully. Good luck. #bairnsoftherock

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I always felt under Murray, that we could have been more ambitious, slowly but surely, creeping up the league, whether that was improving our points tally, or goals for, or goals against columns, we always aim higher, not just trying not to be beat, Murray never. So yeah, always be at the highest level possible, but again, I’ve always thought, that this squad was better on paper than the ones we had. Even right up til January. Pity the game isn’t played on paper. Maybe so8 could do a comparison on players?

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10 hours ago, Silverton End said:

It's a Dumbarton 'thing', we have fans who don't think we belong in the 2nd Tier, yes really, the misery of trips to Montrose, Clyde or Berwick are infinitely more entertaining. :blink:

Not for me tbh, I want to see my team play at the highest possible level.

The same fans that always used to say, when we were a perennial D1 team (that''s what the Championship used to be called, kids) "Aye we'll never go up, the board don't want us to go up".

The board must've been right pissed off in May 1984.

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9 hours ago, optimistic said:

I always felt under Murray, that we could have been more ambitious, slowly but surely, creeping up the league, whether that was improving our points tally, or goals for, or goals against columns, we always aim higher, not just trying not to be beat, Murray never. So yeah, always be at the highest level possible, but again, I’ve always thought, that this squad was better on paper than the ones we had. Even right up til January. Pity the game isn’t played on paper. Maybe so8 could do a comparison on players?

Obviously a direct comparison is difficult as the leagues have changed. What I would say however is that Ian Murray tended to operate with a smaller core group of players, and his rotation was limited. Stevie's recruitment has been quite hit or miss, and we've gone through plenty of players.

What I'll do is take our most common team from this season and post it below with the most common team from Ian Murray's worst season (2014/15 - 7th) and let everyone judge for themselves as to who had the best squad.

Spoiler

Danny Rogers

Scott Taggart Andy Graham Lee Mair/Stuart Findlay* Scott Linton

Mark Gilhaney Scott Agnew Chris Turner Mitch Megginson

Garry Fleming Archie Campbell

* Both made 15 Apps. Mair was clearly dreadful, and Findlay was outstanding, so I didn't feel it right to pick one.

Spoiler

Scott Gallacher

Sam Wardrop Andy Dowie Craig Barr Chris McLaughlin

Kyle Hutton Stuart Carswell

Calum Gallagher Tom Walsh Dimitris Froxylias

Mark Stewart

Granted Stevie has been given some duff luck with injury, so that team hasn't actually played together all that often.

That leaves me with the question around our all-time Championship XI. Which, for me at least, would look something like this.

Spoiler

Alan Martin (SA)

Paul McGinn (IM) Andy Graham (AA) Stuart Findlay (IM) Daniel Harvie (SA)

Chris Turner (AA)

Andy Stirling (SA) Sam Stanton (SA) Robert Thomson (SA)

Garry Fleming (AA) Chris Kane (IM)

That's purely personal, and I've missed a few good players out: Danny Rogers (IM), Scott Agnew (AA), Jamie Lindsay (SA), Jimmy Lister (AA), Lewis Vaughan (SA), Gregor Buchanan (SA), Mark Gilhaney (JC), Jordan Kirkpatrick (IM) and, of course, the Good Lord himself, Bryan Prunty (AA).

It's also based on all the players being in form. Alan Martin all of last season, Andy Graham under Ian Murray, Daniel Harvie after his shaky start (we haven't been blessed in the LB department recently), Chris Turner during that season and a half where he was the best p/t player in the country. He was absolutely awesome until injuries ruined him. The Andy Stirling, Sam Stanton (:wub:) and Robert Thomson trio that we saw post-Durrant last season, and Garry from pretty much every season, aside from last year.

What I will say however is that, in terms of quality signings at least, Alan Adamson has the best record over the last decade imo: Pat Walker, Bryan Prunty, Jim Lister, Scott Agnew, Chris Turner, Alan Lithgow, Nicky Devlin (handed his debut in Chapman's last game, but Adamson stuck with him and made him a first-team regular when he was very young), Kevin Nicol, Jamie Ewings, Andy Graham, Garry Fleming and he got Jon McShane into the form of his career. Not only could he spot a player either, just look at how well thought of most of those guys still are - the guy had a great eye for a cult-hero!

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Obviously a direct comparison is difficult as the leagues have changed. What I would say however is that Ian Murray tended to operate with a smaller core group of players, and his rotation was limited. Stevie's recruitment has been quite hit or miss, and we've gone through plenty of players.
What I'll do is take our most common team from this season and post it below with the most common team from Ian Murray's worst season (2014/15 - 7th) and let everyone judge for themselves as to who had the best squad.
Spoiler

Danny Rogers

Scott Taggart Andy Graham Lee Mair/Stuart Findlay* Scott Linton

Mark Gilhaney Scott Agnew Chris Turner Mitch Megginson

Garry Fleming Archie Campbell

* Both made 15 Apps. Mair was clearly dreadful, and Findlay was outstanding, so I didn't feel it right to pick one.
Spoiler

Scott Gallacher

Sam Wardrop Andy Dowie Craig Barr Chris McLaughlin

Kyle Hutton Stuart Carswell

Calum Gallagher Tom Walsh Dimitris Froxylias

Mark Stewart

Granted Stevie has been given some duff luck with injury, so that team hasn't actually played together all that often.
That leaves me with the question around our all-time Championship XI. Which, for me at least, would look something like this.
Spoiler

Alan Martin (SA)

Paul McGinn (IM) Andy Graham (AA) Stuart Findlay (IM) Daniel Harvie (SA)

Chris Turner (AA)

Andy Stirling (SA) Sam Stanton (SA) Robert Thomson (SA)

Garry Fleming (AA) Chris Kane (IM)

That's purely personal, and I've missed a few good players out: Danny Rogers (IM), Scott Agnew (AA), Jamie Lindsay (SA), Jimmy Lister (AA), Lewis Vaughan (SA), Gregor Buchanan (SA), Mark Gilhaney (JC), Jordan Kirkpatrick (IM) and, of course, the Good Lord himself, Bryan Prunty (AA).
It's also based on all the players being in form. Alan Martin all of last season, Andy Graham under Ian Murray, Daniel Harvie after his shaky start (we haven't been blessed in the LB department recently), Chris Turner during that season and a half where he was the best p/t player in the country. He was absolutely awesome until injuries ruined him. The Andy Stirling, Sam Stanton (:wub:) and Robert Thomson trio that we saw post-Durrant last season, and Garry from pretty much every season, aside from last year.
What I will say however is that, in terms of quality signings at least, Alan Adamson has the best record over the last decade imo: Pat Walker, Bryan Prunty, Jim Lister, Scott Agnew, Chris Turner, Alan Lithgow, Nicky Devlin (handed his debut in Chapman's last game, but Adamson stuck with him and made him a first-team regular when he was very young), Kevin Nicol, Jamie Ewings, Andy Graham, Garry Fleming and he got Jon McShane into the form of his career. Not only could he spot a player either, just look at how well thought of most of those guys still are - the guy had a great eye for a cult-hero!

Well done so8, thank you, I agree with a lot of that. Just goes to show how much it split opinion when alan adamson left, played some excellent football under him, yet never reaped the awards, mostly down to not taking our chances
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Very little chat in here and I understand why but today had a lot of positives. I think the pre-match entertainment went pretty well despite some teething issues (and I'm happy to hear all criticism) but the biggest thing for me was John Steele's speech and pitch. His speech struck a chord with most Sons fans at the stadium I think, his act of being in the Stags after the game and being open to questions says a lot more than that though. He said to me we are now in a season of transparency. We have a massive opportunity to change this club and make it better. The fans need to realise this is now our chance to change things without a board looking to restrict it. Regardless of the league we end up in, we can have a club that we all love. Let's realise it.

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4 minutes ago, Consolidate said:

Sounds like nice words from Steele but it seems to me that transparency and the club's current ownership structure are entirely incompatible. Get rid of the opportunists and we may see change.

 

How do you propose we rid ourselves of the opportunists? Genuine question, I'm not being a smart arse.

I just see it as a massive shift from what we previously had. Brabco will do what they will do, but we can only make the most of what they leave in our control. 

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How do you propose we rid ourselves of the opportunists? Genuine question, I'm not being a smart arse.
I just see it as a massive shift from what we previously had. Brabco will do what they will do, but we can only make the most of what they leave in our control. 
Brabco's response to the application refusal still has to be ascertained, but whatever it is they need to be an integral part of this transparency process.
I welcome John Steele's initial comments and his open approach but the club cannot run on sentiment alone, finance remains a massive issue.
We should however welcome an end to the smoke and mirrors style of governance, and an alternative to the historical default position of 'you cannot' will be a refreshing change.
In the meantime we need to hope that the team management and the players can summon enough to keep us up; I found the post-match focus on the Iron Bru Cup a wee bit OTT....on a number of fronts the next month will be crucial for what follows.
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