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1 hour ago, Robbiem1872 said:

Was that a one off payment however? Because if that was the case what under 16 year old do you know with £95 laying about haha, 

Imo dropping down to league one would not be devasting, if dumbarton are to take an overall look at the state of the clubs transfers and outgoings they are going from free agents to free agents which are demanding a lot of cash for pretty minimal work rate. If we did go down we could cut many of these wages and move to a more slim line first team with more youth playing like Kieran prior etc and if we saved enough dough on the wages there could be an opportunity to set up an under 21s team which would be give us something to fall back on if injuries and suspensions occur instead of getting emergency loans like Aidan Wilson for example. When it comes to ticket prices we would need to drop our prices to compete with other league one teams such as Alloa who charge £16 for an adult and raith rovers who charge £15 so if we were to drop to £15 it could attract more people in as they would be saving a fiver which they could then spend on food from the kiosks. The club needs to look into ways of how they can attract younger fans due to the fact the majority of dumbarton fans are over the age of 40, the atmosphere needs to be discussed( good atmosphere= more fans) young fans don’t want to sit on their hands twirling there thumbs watching football and activities which can be set up for the young kids. 

Appreciate not a lot of U16's will have a lot of cash lying around but I would still expect more than handful of sales if there was demand for it. 

In regards to your other points, running a youth team with Project Brave kicking in is near impossible for a club like ours - our funding is basically cut to nothing and need to finance it all ourselves. The U20 team wasn't providing first team quality players and we were literally going through the motions to tick a box in regards to youth development. As BSF says, we could be looking at nearly £180K shortfall in finances if we get relegated, that's over half the first team playing squad budget - trying to cut your first team wages by half AND run a youth team would be suicide (on top of sorting off-field issues).

Your last point is a fair one and the Trust are trying to make the match day more enjoyable.  This Saturday we have live music, Stephen Watt doing his poetry and a quiz. If people come down and listen to this stuff it makes it easier to do more stuff similar to that in the future. On the flip side if there is no interest we aren't going to waste our time.  We've discussed setting aside an area of the stadium too for a potential "noisy section" but logistically that needs to be worked out. We'll hopefully have a survey out too where fans can tell us exactly what they'd like to see on a match day or things they think the club should be doing. Not all suggestions will be possible, but we want to know what people want. One thing I will say is that if the prices do get lowered and there is no increase in crowd, the club will lose money again. It's not as simple as lowering prices and watching the crowds flock in (take a look at Challenge Cup attendances where prices were at League 2 level). So fans need to be prepared that further cost cutting may (most likely will) be needed if we lower the prices, it's not an easy choice IMO.

 

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18 hours ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

I was going by the SME size reported as Micro  - less (sic) than ten employees or t/o under £2 million. How are you calculating that loss from the info available? There has been no profit and loss issued to shareholders, nor any AGM for years.

You are Micro eligible but you filed Small company format accounts, not Micro ones.

The accounts on Companies House show a full Balance Sheet including retained profits figures. The profit and loss account at 31 May 2016 was overdrawn by £596,111. At 31 May 2017 it was overdrawn £643,255. That makes for a loss for the year of £47,144. Of course it may be corrupted by direct adjustments on the P&L which aren't reported such as dividends but that seems unlikely.

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13 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

For those who say relegation would be preferable to staying in the Champonship what would be the club's aim next season?

To congratulate ourselves on the achievements of the last six seasons, whilst beginning to enjoy our football again in an environment more suited to our budget, infrastructure and capabilities.  And to give someone else a shot at being Scotland's highest-placed part-time club, and see if it also takes them almost to the brink of receivership.  

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28 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

To congratulate ourselves on the achievements of the last six seasons, whilst beginning to enjoy our football again in an environment more suited to our budget, infrastructure and capabilities.  And to give someone else a shot at being Scotland's highest-placed part-time club, and see if it also takes them almost to the brink of receivership.  

So you wouldn't be aiming for promotion back to the Championship? What would be the point then? Isn't the point of the game to win as many matches as possible over the course of a season?

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So you wouldn't be aiming for promotion back to the Championship? What would be the point then? Isn't the point of the game to win as many matches as possible over the course of a season?


Wanting to challenge for promotion is one thing. Being able to challenge for promotion is another thing entirely.

It may well take a season or two of adjustment before that would even be a possibility.
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1 minute ago, BallochSonsFan said:

 


Wanting to challenge for promotion is one thing. Being able to challenge for promotion is another thing entirely.

It may well take a season or two of adjustment before that would even be a possibility.

 

Obviously. Which is why wanting to go down is a very odd stance to take.

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Obviously. Which is why wanting to go down is a very odd stance to take.

 

Folk live in the hope that we'll play more entertaining football if we go down. Whilst it's difficult to ignore the financial problems that relegation would cause, fans want to enjoy following their club. I can understand why this season is just a year too far and why a return to being competitive would be welcomed, even if that's in a lower division.

 

I want to see us play at the best level we can but I can appreciate why fans perhaps want respite from what we've watched this season. The financial reality may be the overriding priority but none of us follow a balance sheet and at least part of being a football fan should involve some kind of enjoyment from the game.

 

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1 minute ago, BallochSonsFan said:

 


Folk live in the hope that we'll play more entertaining football if we go down. Whilst it's difficult to ignore the financial problems that relegation would cause, fans want to enjoy following their club. I can understand why this season is just a year too far and why a return to being competitive would be welcomed, even if that's in a lower division.

I want to see us play at the best level we can but I can appreciate why fans perhaps want respite from what we've watched this season.

 

But there's no guarantee that we would play more entertaining football if we are in a lower division. Some of the most entertaining football I have seen Dumbarton play was in the Championship. Most of the worst football I have seen us play was in lower divisions.

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4 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

Obviously. Which is why wanting to go down is a very odd stance to take.

I don't think it's very odd. It's been a long, long time since we won more games than we lost in a season or had a noticeably positive goal difference. Supporters naturally tire of being the perennial underdog and wouldn't particularly mind being a medium-sized fish again.

There's always the danger we could Cowdenbeath it and fall, and keep falling. Equally we could do what Cowdenbeath managed in 2012 and return at the first time of asking. One thing for sure is no-one is enjoying watching the team at the moment and either way something has to change.

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Just now, Consolidate said:

I don't think it's very odd. It's been a long, long time since we won more games than we lost in a season or had a noticeably positive goal difference. Supporters naturally tire of being the perennial underdog and wouldn't particularly mind being a medium-sized fish again.

There's always the danger we could Cowdenbeath it and fall, and keep falling. Equally we could do what Cowdenbeath managed in 2012 and return at the first time of asking. One thing for sure is no-one is enjoying watching the team at the moment and either way something has to change.

Well I'll ask you the same question as I asked earlier. If we went down what would be your hopes for next season? To win promotion? Or to sit mid table with nothing to play for most weeks?

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But there's no guarantee that we would play more entertaining football if we are in a lower division. Some of the most entertaining football I have seen Dumbarton play was in the Championship. Most of the worst football I have seen us play was in lower divisions.


There are no guarantees in football and I'd rather we were playing Championship football next year. I'd hope that we'd play better than this season.

But if folk believe that they could potentially enjoy a more competitive campaign next year then I'll respect their views even if I don't share them.
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7 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

Well I'll ask you the same question as I asked earlier. If we went down what would be your hopes for next season? To win promotion? Or to sit mid table with nothing to play for most weeks?

If we go down I hope we follow up by winning the title.  Ultimately I want us to win every match we play but I just don't anticipate being devastated if we go down.

 

 

Edited by Consolidate
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6 minutes ago, Consolidate said:

If we go down I hope we follow up by winning the title.  Ultimately I want us to win every match we play but I just don't anticipate being devastated if we go down.

So you want to go down because you're not competitive in the Championship, so you can hopefully win League One and be back in the Championship?

That's absolute lunacy.

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32 minutes ago, Poet of the Macabre said:

So you want to go down because you're not competitive in the Championship, so you can hopefully win League One and be back in the Championship?

That's absolute lunacy.

No, lunacy is what got yourselves , Livingston, Hearts, Motherwell and Dundee into deep shit, and if you recall, Division One helped Dunfermline to regroup and move forward.  And that's the point - it's got much less to do with not being competitive than the fact that we have been living beyond our means for a couple of seasons now in the Championship, relying on Directors' loans, etc., and (probably) paying far more in players' wages than is sensible - lunacy I'd call it.  We've also shed about 50% of our core support in the process, with creditors snapping at our heels, and all of that combined is putting the football club in peril.

Relegation is the least of it.

 

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43 minutes ago, Poet of the Macabre said:

So you want to go down because you're not competitive in the Championship, so you can hopefully win League One and be back in the Championship?

That's absolute lunacy.

I don't necessarily want relegation, i'm simply able to understand why others do. And I don't think their stance is odd.

And anyway, there's nothing at all lunatic about your post.  A season in League 1 might offer a reboot of sorts for a fresh go at the Championship.

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15 hours ago, sonsism said:

Consolidation. Stay within budget and stay competitive.

I'd honestly rather take finishing 8th in League 1 next season over one more season in the Championship where we get pumped off 9 full time teams (providing Ayr don't bottle the title) finish rock bottom and have Aitken reminding us that we're a part-time team after every breath.  We cannot sustain Championship football forever - without investment it's highly unlikely we'll return to it - it's been a hell of a ride but unfortunately the sun is setting.  From all accounts the club isn't in the best of health anyway, perhaps less financial pressure in League 1 would be a good thing for a few years. I'd rather we were League 1/2 diddies than spunk away our limited resources on trying to stay in the Championship for a few seasons and ending up in serious financial problems

I love a good away day to Forfar, Arbroath etc so looking forward to match days again would be lovely.

 

 

That is such a grim post.

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Our seasons in the championship have been the most enjoyable for me, to think we've took points against team like hibs, Dundee untied, st mirren etc. I like being the underdogs and would love to stay in this division forever.

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16 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

No, lunacy is what got yourselves , Livingston, Hearts, Motherwell and Dundee into deep shit, and if you recall, Division One helped Dunfermline to regroup and move forward.  And that's the point - it's got much less to do with not being competitive than the fact that we have been living beyond our means for a couple of seasons now in the Championship, relying on Directors' loans, etc., and (probably) paying far more in players' wages than is sensible - lunacy I'd call it.  We've also shed about 50% of our core support in the process, with creditors snapping at our heels, and all of that combined is putting the football club in peril.

Relegation is the least of it.

 

Our crowds may have dropped a bit this season but we have not lost 50% of our core support.

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When I play I want to play at the highest level possible, even if it means my team punching above its weight and we lose more than we win, I enjoy the challenge of pitting myself against better quality players and teams.
When I support the sons I want the same, it maybe a struggle week in week out but I still want my team to play at the highest level possible.
Dropping down won’t necessarily mean better more attractive football, even if we had a superior team due to a bigger budget (which is unlikely to be the case) you would undoubtedly find some of them drop to the level of the teams they are up against, there are a lot of ‘giant’ killings that back this up. Also we have been the ‘best PT team’ for a number of years so dropping down will give other teams an incentive to beat us and steal our crown.

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