Sons' sorrow

[Armand 2]

I would be extremely surprised if Nisbet turns out to be a success on the level of Chris Kane. I believe this was supposed to have went through when the window opened but Miles Storey picked up a knock.

Like many players, he has struggled to make the transition from being one the best players at U20 level to the first team (see Div Wilson, Chris Duggan). 

He got an opportunity at Hibs on the opening day of the season and looked like a competition winner. In fairness, he then followed it up with a Man of the Match showing against St Johnstone but any first team showings have been underwhelming especially in recent times.

He had a very productive spell at East Stirling but the Ayr move was a step too far, too soon; he would have been better served playing in League 1 for a season.

[Howlin' Wilf]

It's far more than just QOS terms that would be a stumbling block with Stirling. Anyone else in the league bar Brechin can offer more than us, as can at least 2 in the league below.

If it was to be a loan deal I'd assume it would require us paying 100% of his current Queens wage which I'm guessing would be impossible. For him to sign on a permanent would require him agreeing a pay off or leaving for free as well as us being able to offer him a competitive wage. Both of the above scenarios seem unlikely to me.

Stranger things have happened but I think at this stage we should be approaching any future January transfers with slightly lower expectations. I'm not sure offloading the likes of Johnstone will lead to us having a decent wedge to spend, IMO the likes of him and Wilson will be at the lower end of the wage scale.

Brechin will almost certainly have more money than Dumbarton. 24,000 a pretty decent crowd at Celtic Park on Saturday.

[The Moonster]

Let's have a look at the squad:

GK: Gallacher, Ewings.

DEF: Wardrop, Smith, Dowie, Barr, Hill, McLaughlin, Dick

MID: C. Gallagher, Walsh, Froxylias, Handling, G. Gallagher, Carswell, Hutton, Wilson, Johnston, Prior

FWD: Nade, Stewart, Russell, Nisbet (if confirmed).

That's a squad of 23 all in. It really is big enough for us to survive, the problem is we've got too many who offer us nothing or are at the end of their careers. Wilson has offered us nothing aside from 1 assist against Falkirk, Johnston has done absolutely nothing, Prior never given a chance, Jamie Ewings never going to be fit enough to play, Nade looking like this is a season too far. That leaves you working with a squad of 18 whilst paying for a squad of 23.  Then you've got injuries to Stewart and Froxylias which can seem never ending, Handling hasn't kicked a ball in anger yet either, bringing it down to 15-16 players who can actually offer you something out of a squad of 23.

What do we reckon the average wage is? Probably around £300 for us this division? That's nearly £7K a week in wages for a squad of 23. We don't pay our players when the season ends (as their contracts are up) so I think it's essentially 46 weeks we pay a squad. That's £322K per year for a playing squad.  Average attendance last year was 1,130 and I wouldn't be surprised to see that drop significantly this year given the teams we lost/gained in the division. Our average price last year was £15 IIRC, so if we take that roughly to mean we raised around £305K from ticket sales (I actually expect we took less than that in reality). This season, 100 of our fans bought heavily discounted early bird season tickets, another 200 bought normal season tickets which are discounted from standard pricing, probably a good percentage paying concession rates at the gate and taking running costs into account, I'm actually struggling to see where the f**k we get the money from. Yeah, we get good prize money finishing in this division but to me that must just be making up the shortfall (if it even does that). When you break it down like this I think the clubs pricing of £20 earns some merit (I don't agree with it btw).

I would find it mind boggling if we could bring in another player of any real quality without moving 1 or more of our current squad on. 

[Sons FC]

Great assessment Moonster - a lot of assumptions but nevertheless not a bad stab.

You missed out the coaching staff wages and sponsorship income (I don't imagine that will be huge) plus the Irn Bru money - around £20,000 this year. I don't know what the board or the Trust contribute but the budget is pretty tight.

[cameron2000]

Kevin Nesbit signs. Happy with that. A talented Striker with enough pace to get in the channels and being 5ft 11 he should have decent presence about him. Certainly should offer more than Nade or Morrison.

[Sons FC]

Well, one goal and he has done as well as Morrison!

[Jan Vojáček]

I didn't feel he was a great signing on paper, but the response to the news on the Ayr United thread has got me feeling a lot more positive.

Welcome to DFC, Nizzy. If you can win the odd header, and score a couple of goals you'll do just fine!

[lorenzo71]

Welcome to DFC Nizzy.Good Luck.

[Radford]

Was pretty impressed by Nisbet when he played against Saints earlier in the season.

[The Moonster]

Some of the comments on Nisbet are certainly a bit more encouraging, it sounds like he's the type of striker that may well contribute to the team but won't score goals. It's just not what we need.  I suppose if Mark Stewart is fit then he starts anyway and Nisbet is probably a decent back up option, I hope I'm wrong and he bags us 5 goals before the end of the season, that would be a decent return.

[Northfield 53]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

Let's have a look at the squad:

GK: Gallacher, Ewings.

DEF: Wardrop, Smith, Dowie, Barr, Hill, McLaughlin, Dick

MID: C. Gallagher, Walsh, Froxylias, Handling, G. Gallagher, Carswell, Hutton, Wilson, Johnston, Prior

FWD: Nade, Stewart, Russell, Nisbet (if confirmed).

That's a squad of 23 all in. It really is big enough for us to survive, the problem is we've got too many who offer us nothing or are at the end of their careers. Wilson has offered us nothing aside from 1 assist against Falkirk, Johnston has done absolutely nothing, Prior never given a chance, Jamie Ewings never going to be fit enough to play, Nade looking like this is a season too far. That leaves you working with a squad of 18 whilst paying for a squad of 23.  Then you've got injuries to Stewart and Froxylias which can seem never ending, Handling hasn't kicked a ball in anger yet either, bringing it down to 15-16 players who can actually offer you something out of a squad of 23.

What do we reckon the average wage is? Probably around £300 for us this division? That's nearly £7K a week in wages for a squad of 23. We don't pay our players when the season ends (as their contracts are up) so I think it's essentially 46 weeks we pay a squad. That's £322K per year for a playing squad.  Average attendance last year was 1,130 and I wouldn't be surprised to see that drop significantly this year given the teams we lost/gained in the division. Our average price last year was £15 IIRC, so if we take that roughly to mean we raised around £305K from ticket sales (I actually expect we took less than that in reality). This season, 100 of our fans bought heavily discounted early bird season tickets, another 200 bought normal season tickets which are discounted from standard pricing, probably a good percentage paying concession rates at the gate and taking running costs into account, I'm actually struggling to see where the f**k we get the money from. Yeah, we get good prize money finishing in this division but to me that must just be making up the shortfall (if it even does that). When you break it down like this I think the clubs pricing of £20 earns some merit (I don't agree with it btw).

I would find it mind boggling if we could bring in another player of any real quality without moving 1 or more of our current squad on. 

£300 for a part time player will it be as much as that .

Im think the  average wage at Queens will be around £400   

If  you work full time and play part time with Dumbarton you could double  the money you are on at Queens 

 

[Jan Vojáček]

4 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Some of the comments on Nisbet are certainly a bit more encouraging, it sounds like he's the type of striker that may well contribute to the team but won't score goals. It's just not what we need.  I suppose if Mark Stewart is fit then he starts anyway and Nisbet is probably a decent back up option, I hope I'm wrong and he bags us 5 goals before the end of the season, that would be a decent return.

We've spent much of the season with Nade contributing a bit but not scoring. Unfortunately that 'bit' has decreased since the Brechin game with the latest injury seemingly having gubbed him. If Nisbet can contribute a wee bit more than that then I'm confident in the guys around him (Stewart, Beany, Walsh etc) can score a few.

We'll stroll the playoffs 

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, Sons FC said:

Great assessment Moonster - a lot of assumptions but nevertheless not a bad stab.

You missed out the coaching staff wages and sponsorship income (I don't imagine that will be huge) plus the Irn Bru money - around £20,000 this year. I don't know what the board or the Trust contribute but the budget is pretty tight.

True, the fact that the board and Trust have to put money towards it in itself should show how unsustainable our current situation is.  I think our sponsorship deals are fairly good now, but yes, things must be incredible tight for us in this league. Perhaps if we could hold 52 weddings a year in our function suite we'd have no problems...

1 minute ago, Northfield 53 said:

£300 for a part time player will it be as much as that .

Im think the  average wage at Queens will be around £400   

If  you work full time and play part time with Dumbarton you could double  the money you are on at Queens 

 

I reckon our (and your) wages would shock you.  The "part time" bit is true in name and time committed by the players, but not in wages. Many players have stayed part time with us over our stay in this division because their combined wages dwarfs what they would earn solely at a full time club, two of them being Garry Fleming and Mark Docherty who openly admitted as much.

[RandomGuy.]

3 hours ago, The Moonster said:

8 goals in 46 senior games is hardly the record of someone who fills you with confidence, but it's a position we need and the boy will get every chance. 

You'd be better looking at minutes played instead of games played... 

He ripped us apart in the Cup this season. Coped physically with Shaughnessy and Anderson, constantly harried them and his pace caused absolute havoc. Was a bit surprised at how negative Thistle fans were about him based on that, tbh. 

[Jan Vojáček]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

You'd be better looking at minutes played instead of games played... 

This season he's played 311 minutes for Thistle's top team, recording two assists (one every 155 minutes).

Last season he managed 1,035 minutes for Ayr United and registered two goals and two assists (one every 259 minutes).

Put into context, his 1,035 minutes between August and January 14th would put him on a very similar amount of gametime to David Smith this season (1,039) and a wee bit behind the perma-injured duo of Froxy and Nade (1,164 and 1,237 respectively). 

I'll judge him after his first ten minutes. He's just followed me on Twitter though, so he's pretty much my favourite player already.

[Robbiem1872]

Alright boys, this seems a bit arrogant considering the talk of the clubs finances here, but would yous personally say there’s a gap in the fans market for better styled and cheap merchandise eg scarves and hats which the profit from this money would go straight back into dumbarton through sons trust membership and creating atmosphere through expensive but intricate looking flags and banners? 

Edited January 22, 2018 by Robbiem1872

[sonsanorak]

Would I buy merch to allow others to join the Trust or buy flags?

Probably

[Robbiem1872]

3 minutes ago, sonsanorak said:

Would I buy merch to allow others to join the Trust or buy flags?

Probably

Good quality merch aswell the proof is in the detail 

[lorenzo71]

58 minutes ago, Robbiem1872 said:

Alright boys, this seems a bit arrogant considering the talk of the clubs finances here, but would yous personally say there’s a gap in the fans market for better styled and cheap merchandise eg scarves and hats which the profit from this money would go straight back into dumbarton through sons trust membership and creating atmosphere through expensive but intricate looking flags and banners? 

Would support that whole-heartedly

[The Moonster]

I would highly recommend that anyone who hasn't done so already gets an email sent into the club pronto about this Colt proposal. I've sent one stating that I will cease to follow Scottish football or DFC should this go through and I've asked them to clarify their position. If they receive 100 emails of similar nature then we'll force a statement out of them on it, if they receive less than 5 then they'll most likely sleep walk along with it. I urge all of you who are against this to send an email to Frank Meade and Alan Findlay.  Emails are on the official site but to save time: francis.meade@googlemail.com and afindlay@dumbartonfc.com.