Howlin' Wilf Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Nowhereman said: Sustainable probably means a long lease which Chris Stainton mentioned at the meeting at the ground back in October. Problem with long leases is that there are ways around them and of course landlords can change. There are problems with ownership too. For example the club owns the current stadium but Brabco bought the club's majority shareholding. Brabco therefore own the stadium. If there were a Stadium Company with a proper Golden Share which guaranteed DFC's occupancy on a 99 year lease or similar there might be ways round that but not any that are immediately evident to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said: There was a Celtic fan wishing us bankruptcy for having the audacity to appoint Durant as assistant manager. You just can't address that kind of craziness Be that as it may we should all pray for an immediate end to the succession of irascible of old men who have had the running of DFC in their grip for a long, long time. Genuine Sons fans have shrugged their way through whilst hoping for better, but you alienate the general public at your peril. And lo and behold, along comes a window of opportunity, albeit with risky conditions attached. I've been as critical as anyone where Brabco are concerned but they have belatedly come to a realisation that the best, indeed the ONLY way they can hope to bring their plans to fruition is to have a functional, accountable and proactive BoD at the football club. If anyone thinks this is windy rhetoric then consider this. Lots of folk are hyper-ventilating about a possible return of Iain Russell; I wouldn't bet on it because I doubt that DFC currently has a pot to piss in, never mind also securing Derek Lyle and Andy Stirling. And that situation at least partly exists for a reason, that reason being that a longstanding dearth of vision and ambition and a semi-permanent state of crisis management has seen DFC become almost totally reliant on a diminishing rump of diehards. That will only end in one outcome. As Wilf graphically describes below, in many respects the situation is unchanged over the last 25 years, and again we find ourselves at a crossroads, with at least one, and possibly two roads leading into the abyss. The significant difference this time is that if Brabco's plan progresses thro the Planning Application then a real chance for a more representative future governance of the club may at least be in view. It may not be an ideal scenario - it seldom is - but I'd encourage all Sons fans to think long and hard here. Edited January 10, 2018 by O'Kelly Isley III 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Absolutely OK3. Whatever happens at the planning meeting, the club has to change because what we have right now is not sustainable. I'd encourage everybody to read through the information that's out there, ask questions of the trust and consider the answers carefully. We need fans to make an informed decision because regardless of whether we move or we stay, the club can;t just carry on regardless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curler Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I also came late to the meeting last Saturday and a point I picked up was that the planning application would be for a 4000 seat stadium, but all the stands may not be in the initial build. We could end up with a single stand like present as I cannot see us coming anywhere near filling all the stands.Another point that was stated that 200 local clubs would be interested in the new facility. I am not from the Dumbarton area but I find the number of 200 clubs a bit far fetched. This Saturday I would prefer the meeting goes ahead with Brabco’s PR machine being there as I think a more meaningful discussion of the fans’ points of view would hopefully forthcoming.Lastly I wonder how many of the card were filled in. There appeared to be a lot still on the tables at full time that has not been completed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFarPost Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Nowhereman said: Sustainable probably means a long lease which Chris Stainton mentioned at the meeting at the ground back in October. Problem with long leases is that there are ways around them and of course landlords can change. Lawyers have ways of framing these things to ensure the right protections. I know. I'm married to one! We're getting good advice. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimistic Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Ach well, no wonderful Wednesday [emoji27] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Fair points and I think that's what everyone prefers. If the club would incur a large/unservicable tax bill by taking ownership of this stadium, would you accept the long lease/peppercorn rate solution? What sort of tax bill could they incur? They'd be selling one stadium to build another 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Lawyers have ways of framing these things to ensure the right protections. I know. I'm married to one! We're getting good advice. Lawyers may frame things to ensure protection but circumstances change and there are always lawyers on the other side 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo71 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Exciting times as this could be a genuine opportunity for the club to move forward in the correct way..perhaps ever.The history of the club has seen it being exploited by the previous owners and we now stand on the cusp of a potentially bright new future.As things stand the club can only go down the leagues and the ground can only get worse.If the future of the club can be guranteed especially re the ownership and indeed the whole project seen to sustain the club in a manner that is not hand to mouth then we fans ought to embrace the change wholeheartedly IMO. Of course a lot of big 'ifs' in the above.As a sign of genuine intention now would be a good moment for brabco to invest in the club for players as the whole project i am led to believe is based on Championship status. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFarPost Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Nowhereman said: Lawyers may frame things to ensure protection but circumstances change and there are always lawyers on the other side Life is risky and contingent, sure. But ensuring the maintenance of used purpose for a particular property shouldn't be especially tricky in these circumstances. Indeed, it's relatively straightforward. Where there is a will, there can definitely be a way. (Mostly, in these circumstances, the problems arise because competent lawyers spot loopholes left by less competent ones, by the way. Knowing how to hire the former, and the right ones for the right task, is important). We're nae daft, y'know. Edited January 10, 2018 by TheFarPost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 For as long as I've supported Dumbarton FC (47 years now) the club's future has been in doubt and that has almost always been down to one thing, the heritable asset (the stadium) would be worth more as a cleared bit of ground than as a going concern i.e. a fitba club. The fact that DFC owned this heritable property has never been a protection. Indeed several times when the ground had been used as collateral for borrowing, the future looked bleak. Even under the ownership of Robert Robertson/Hutchison Engineering in the 1970s, when the club was riding on the crest of it's biggest successes of the 20th century, Robertson had a buyer lined up to build houses on Boghead and move the club to Cumbernauld. I seem to remember the rejection of a planning application for Boghead was the catalyst for this. In the 80s as the solicitor administering the Fraser estate was closing in on the club's heritable assert, to repay a £40,000 loan made by Sir Hugh, the sale of Stevie McCahill to Celtic saved the club at the 11th hour (according to then Chief Exec Alex Wright). In the 90s, with Neil Rankine having been declared bankrupt and with Jim Innes holding proxy on his shares, he (Innes) was ready to accept an offer for Boghead from a housebuilder (Bellway I think) and wind up the club. Only an emergency response from directors Gilbert Lawrie and Alistair Paton, resulting in Douglas Dalgleish becoming chairman, saved the club then. Believe me, there were some scary moments at the building of the new stadium at the Rock. I well remember John McFall looking me in the eye and saying "At that stage we thought the (new stadium) project was doomed and with it, the club" . This was circa October 2000 on my appointment to the board of Dumbarton Community Stadium Ltd. McFall was talking of events six months previous. Brabco is nothing new. There has always been someone wanting money/prestige/glory or whatever from Dumbarton FC. I have consistently taken the view that what Brabco is providing for DFC is a lifeboat. For a fee. The good ship DFC is sinking. And whilst some argue that the captain is exaggerating the situation, or the ship is flying under a Liberian flag or there's a salvage crew in the wings waiting to scavenge the wreck, the sensible thing is to examine the lifeboat and compare it to the sinking ship. Does it offer the chance of survival? Well yes, probably as much as John Waters who opposed Robert Robertson's Cumbernauld proposal in a live debate on STV. As much as that fee from the transfer of McCahill. Maybe as much as the Lawrie/Paton bit of magic. It also offers the risk of failure as all these things did too. If Cumbernauld Development Association had been a bit more persuasive, had Celtic changed manager and he didn't fancy McCahill, Had Innes not been persuaded, Had McFall not come up with funding, there would not have been a Sons Sorrow on P&B I think it's the lifeboat lads. It might be full of holes and it might hit an iceberg. It might not. It's a chance. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Life is risky and contingent, sure. But ensuring the maintenance of used purpose for a particular property shouldn't be especially tricky in these circumstances. Indeed, it's relatively straightforward. Where there is a will, there can definitely be a way. (Mostly, in these circumstances, the problems arise because competent lawyers spot loopholes left by less competent ones, by the way. Knowing how to hire the former, and the right ones for the right task, is important). We're nae daft, y'know. [emoji6] Your faith in lawyers is touching. Personally I would have none 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFarPost Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Just now, Nowhereman said: Your faith in lawyers is touching. Personally I would have none It's not faith, it's experience. And a wee bit of knowledge. The law is far from perfect, but used wisely it can help turn intentions into workable solutions. Which is what we want here. Absolute guarantees aren't available, but the notion that all we are left with is competing bits of guesswork simply isn't true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegrass Bairn Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 21 hours ago, Sonsteam of 08 said: What we need is someone who can score goals, and has experience of being a director of a business. Wait a minute... http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/14505893.Footballer_threatened_to_slit_police_officer_s_throat__hearing_told/ Without a doubt these are the greatest two paragraphs ever written. Just...wow. Extraordinary. And, finally, the indisputable evidence that Derek Lyle is indeed Leyland Palmer, and he was clearly possessed (by either Bob or possibly MD20/20) at time of alleged 'misunderstanding'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the snudge Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 13 hours ago, Nowhereman said: What sort of tax bill could they incur? They'd be selling one stadium to build another Maybe that's the thinking about getting local teams involved? Drumming up charity status for tax purposes? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghead ranter Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 "Murdo MacLeod likes your tweet" Aaaaaaand I'm spent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameron2000 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I'm so excited I think I've just had a small wee. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleslie99 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Gregor Buchanan has left st mirren 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 AWOOOGA 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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