Sons' sorrow

[sonsanorak]

BBPF; any support or voices against will be critical to this getting approved by the council.

The councils decision is whether the building of houses in order to finance the football scheme is worthwhile or not.

Not whether or not its to the advancement of dfc. The trusts only counter to this would be to say that wdc and dfc in particular could already do more with local football and that more pitches are not required. But that in effect shuts down a future funding source and puts them against the plans.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

I appreciate that So8. Certainly when Riverside discussed it at the agm it was felt a guarded welcoming of more football facilities was appropriate. But only in the same way that the council building something, or a n other, would be.
 
Brabco have commisioned professional pr folk who are looking for support and leverage from other local groups with some interest in football facilities.
 
I would expect more of this pr stuff in the weeks to come and would hope we respect everyones right to their own opinions and facebook pages.
 
 
 

Call me cynical, but it's become pretty obvious that due to the justifiably lukewarm reception given to the proposal by fans of DFC, that Brabco now seek to garner support by other means. If youth football club officials are onside that would assist their case, but these officials and the rest of us would do very well to consider that such schemes invariably fail to deliver the projected benefits whilst costing more than planned.

We also need to remember that the core raisin d'etre in all of this has now become Brabco's ability to realise their investment in purchasing the controlling shareholding in DFC. I remain far from convinced that this will dovetail easily with the ambitious plans thus presented. In short, I'd be more confident if the proposers were other than Brabco.

[pleslie99]

As iv previously stated, amateur and youth football don't urgently need any more facilities, there is plenty. Are they being enticed by the promise of being able to play in a 'big' stadium that the boys won't get to do normally. Is it just the youth teams that are being canvassed or have they looked for support from the accies, st pats etc? Dumbarton football club don't care about the youth football in the area (Any more) so I'm surprised that the club's are getting on board with this.

[Boghead ranter]

If I was involved in a youth football club, I'd totally back the creation of more pitches. The more pitches there are locally, the more chance that some of those pitches lie empty quite a lot. And the more they lie empty, the more the price of hiring them comes down. 

[DumbartonTheSons]

I'd think that any local youth football team would be in favour of any new facilities/pitches in the area. 

So, no real surprise there for me.

 

This could be a good move and an opportunity for DFC, to become a real 'Community Club'. With the facilities being used by all local teams and perhaps DFC picking up any talented youngsters.

 

Time will tell. 

I'm still a bit cynical tbh.

I mean who'd want to buy a house near or within a football complex, if we are currently being called a 'nuisance neighbour' where we are just now, with new housing in close proximity???

 

I was just about to post pretty much what you've said in your first paragraph. Spot on.

 

Of course local boys clubs and youth football set up's are going to favour it, why wouldn't they? There's potential good in it for them and absolutely no risk. If it all goes tits up, then they're not the ones up the creek.

 

From the article on the website, for all the apparent 'support' from local youth football, there's little noted official 'support' from the club (absolutely rightly so in my opinion), however that should be very noteworthy in an article which is clearly geared at suggesting the sun shines out the arse of these new plans. I remain wholly unconvinced...

 

As a smaller aside, you're completely correct in the 'noisy neighbours' thing. It's something I've never understood to be honest. Without wanting to sound all schoolboy, we were there first, so while there might be annoyance at the noise (insert joke about our buoyant home crowds here), if you move to that area, can you reasonably have a 'noisy neighbour' complaint? If you moved to a property near a hospital, would it be fair or reasonable to complain about the noise of sirens all the time? I don't think so. Just a point that rankles with me whenever it's aired.

 

Edit, Merry Christmas when it comes, Sons fans. Here's to a cracking 2018 hopefully!

 

[Boghead ranter]

14 minutes ago, DumbartonTheSons said:

As a smaller aside, you're completely correct in the 'noisy neighbours' thing. It's something I've never understood to be honest. Without wanting to sound all schoolboy, we were there first, so while there might be annoyance at the noise (insert joke about our buoyant home crowds here), if you move to that area, can you reasonably have a 'noisy neighbour' complaint? If you moved to a property near a hospital, would it be fair or reasonable to complain about the noise of sirens all the time? I don't think so. Just a point that rankles with me whenever it's aired.

You forget that there are a vast amount of "it's somebody else's fault" morons around.

There are almost constant complaints raised about Stenny's ground (which can be hired for 7s any night of the week) from people who buy those wee houses in the street beside Ochilview. 

Five minutes online research would tell you that there is going to be extra traffic on match days (like us, fnarr), noise and swearing, and light pollution from autumn to spring.

But naw, they buy the house and then raise complaints with the council. Fortunately FDC keep telling them to gtf.

[Silverton End]

3 hours ago, pleslie99 said:

As iv previously stated, amateur and youth football don't urgently need any more facilities, there is plenty. Are they being enticed by the promise of being able to play in a 'big' stadium that the boys won't get to do normally. Is it just the youth teams that are being canvassed or have they looked for support from the accies, st pats etc? Dumbarton football club don't care about the youth football in the area (Any more) so I'm surprised that the club's are getting on board with this.

Dumbarton Academy FP's have their 'home' pitches nr Braehead Primary on The Common, along with changing facilities & mini gym (which they renovated themselves) within the school grounds & St Pats FPs occasionally use The Common, as well as Posties Park, which is due for a massive revamp courtesy of WDC. Floodlights, running track etc.

Can't see either of them being interested in moving permanently to Dalmoak, I believe both FPs have options just now to move a match, if bad weather prevents them using their grass park(s).

 

[BallochSonsFan]

Merry Christmas folks. Hope everybody enjoys a happy and peaceful day.

[Howlin' Wilf]

I simply don’t know if the Dalmoak move will happen. There is first the not inconsiderable matter of planning consent to negotiate. It seems that I predicted correctly that we wouldn’t know about that this year. If it were granted then we would soon be faced with the wherewithal or otherwise of Brabco to deliver the project. From a business perspective, the margins seem tight but maybe not impossible.
If their (Brabco’s) intention on the Facebook page was simply for PR with the intention of not allowing, or controlling discussion, they could have set the page up with comments having to be moderated or with comments disabled. With the former method, they needn’t publish the comment until they had an answer ready. That would have been better than comments appearing then disappearing.
I got the impression that the Trust weren’t all that far from supporting the move at the last meeting. I think their apparent shift in position is because of the focus on the alternative to the move. It isn’t just "as you were". Should planning be denied or the project not progress for another reason, we are looking at disinterested owners who have failed in a major investment project and in the process lost a considerable sum. We are also looking at infrastructure renewal and replacement to the guts of £300,000. In short, if everything is as Brabco says, then the move will cost the club nothing and will address the infrastructure issues, but staying could involve around £1 million to be found to continue ( the infrastructure money and a Brabco buy out)

Merry Christmas [emoji319]

Edited December 25, 2017 by Howlin' Wilf

[Dumbarton Rock]

Merry Xmas guys. Mind and go easy on me tomorrow it's my first day back. 

[optimistic]

Merry Christmas one and all [emoji1335]

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I simply don’t know if the Dalmoak move will happen. There is first the not inconsiderable matter of planning consent to negotiate. It seems that I predicted correctly that we wouldn’t know about that this year. If it were granted then we would soon be faced with the wherewithal or otherwise of Brabco to deliver the project. From a business perspective, the margins seem tight but maybe not impossible.
If their (Brabco’s) intention on the Facebook page was simply for PR with the intention of not allowing, or controlling discussion, they could have set the page up with comments having to be moderated or with comments disabled. With the former method, they needn’t publish the comment until they had an answer ready. That would have been better than comments appearing then disappearing.
I got the impression that the Trust weren’t all that far from supporting the move at the last meeting. I think their apparent shift in position is because of the focus on the alternative to the move. It isn’t just "as you were". Should planning be denied or the project not progress for another reason, we are looking at disinterested owners who have failed in a major investment project and in the process lost a considerable sum. We are also looking at infrastructure renewal and replacement to the guts of £300,000. In short, if everything is as Brabco says, then the move will cost the club nothing and will address the infrastructure issues, but staying could involve around £1 million to be found to continue ( the infrastructure money and a Brabco buy out)

Merry Christmas [emoji319]

I've heard the figures quoted by Brabco to improve the current site are wildly inflated.

[The Moonster]

3 hours ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

 

I've heard the figures quoted by Brabco to improve the current site are wildly inflated.

 

Not to mention the figures quoted by them for housing at Lomondgate, which appear also to be inflated.

[Howlin' Wilf]

I've heard the figures quoted by Brabco to improve the current site are wildly inflated.

The figures aren't to improve the current site, so much as to bring it up to standard. It may be true that they are exaggerated but I haven’t heard that being said by anyone with any inside knowledge. I understand that they are based on estimates for the work.
The main thrust of my posting was that there are still posts appearing here which are along the lines of “Go away nasty Brabco!” If the Dalmoak plan doesn’t go ahead for any reason then people should reflect on what happens to companies who fail in an investment and who have considerable contingent debt, which they have no chance of trading their way out of. This contingent debt will become real after any failure of the Dalmoak plan because the authorities have been mollified by assurances that we are moving. Thus maintenance issues on the pitch, the stand, the floodlights and the boundary wall have not been enforced but they would be by the various agencies on any failure of the Dalmoak plan.
Add into the mix that Brabco will then have as their only asset and recourse to recovering their investment, a heritable site adjacent to a large and popular housing development worth maybe £2m.
Just saying.

[shawfield shed boy]

Who you got for us ....

[Jan Vojáček]

2 minutes ago, shawfield shed boy said:

Who you got for us ....

Chris Johnston is all yours. You can have Kyle Prior on loan if you want too, he's looked quite tidy on his odd first team appearance but badly needs the game-time. 

[DumbartonTheSons]

Chris Johnston is all yours. You can have Kyle Prior on loan if you want too, he's looked quite tidy on his odd first team appearance but badly needs the game-time. 

I know you're not as harsh as others on them, but C.Gal and S.Gal can be sent too.

We need rid. The former isn't and never has been close to good enough for this level and the latter is a calamity and we're just asking for trouble keeping him as first-choice going into the second half of the season.

[sonsanorak]

Dundee United and Inverness Caledonian Thistle are keen to sign midfielder Tom Walsh from Championship rivals Dumbarton during January. (Daily Record, print edition)

Surprised at this rumour tbh. Would miss Walshy; when on his game he's one of our best players.

[George Parr]

3 minutes ago, sonsanorak said:

Dundee United and Inverness Caledonian Thistle are keen to sign midfielder Tom Walsh from Championship rivals Dumbarton during January. (Daily Record, print edition)

Surprised at this rumour tbh. Would miss Walshy; when on his game he's one of our best players.

Pre-contract agreement for the summer perhaps? Seems unlikely that Walsh would move on in Jan.

[Jan Vojáček]

Dundee United and Inverness Caledonian Thistle are keen to sign midfielder Tom Walsh from Championship rivals Dumbarton during January. (Daily Record, print edition)

Surprised at this rumour tbh. Would miss Walshy; when on his game he's one of our best players.

If we get offered reasonable money (I've no idea what that is for a 21 year old part-time player with 6 months left on his deal) then we should probably take it to be honest.

Walsh is a great player when he's flying, and I'd be really sad to lose him, but if it allowed Stevie to bring in a good quality striker then taking it might not be the worst option. Especially with Froxy and Handling able to play in the #10 role.