Sons' sorrow

[Scottylintonstowel]

Sadly over the last two or three years more than a few of Dumbartons best and most devoted fans have passed away. Even sadder is the fact that that so few are taking their place. Remembering back to the fifties when the Sons had thousands of supporters at times to fall back on we have reached the stage when the core support is Now only in the hundreds. We as a community can Ill afford the loss of men like Campbell with their passion and commitment. And whilst the biggest blow is obviously to his family with his passing another part of Dumbarton football club has been diminished.

[sons'r'us]

Sadly over the last two or three years more than a few of Dumbartons best and most devoted fans have passed away. Even sadder is the fact that that so few are taking their place. Remembering back to the fifties when the Sons had thousands of supporters at times to fall back on we have reached the stage when the core support is Now only in the hundreds. We as a community can Ill afford the loss of men like Campbell with their passion and commitment. And whilst the biggest blow is obviously to his family with his passing another part of Dumbarton football club has been diminished.

Was thinking much the same myself.

[Silverton End]

Condolences to ThirdRock's family.

RIP

[Fourth Rock From the Sun]

7 hours ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

My goodness what a shock to hear of Campbell's passing. He and I had a wee difference of opinion here a few years ago (as much, if not more my fault than his). We sorted it out face to face at a game with agreement and humour. After that, Campbell never failed to say hello and we'd have a chat about the Sons or whatever. Sincere sympathy and condolences to Campbell's family.

If you didn't have a disagreement with my dad then you never new him at all!!!! 

 

Thanks for the kind words and let's enjoy the rest of the season!

 

Sean

[Jordo1872]

10 hours ago, Fourth Rock From the Sun said:

First of all, I realised I cocked up my username after I'd made it.

Secondly of all, thank you all so much for your kind words about the passing of my father, Campbell Smith.  I have been tearing up reading them all.  

 

Dumbarton football club was his life!  When I was a bairn he was a steward at bigheeded and used to take me down every week.  He was placed at the top of the stairs of the main stand so he could watch all of the match.  He got me selling programmes and earning a few quid every week at the old ground. 

 

When the move to the rock happened, we missed the first match because we were in Florida but we were back for the following.  After a while, presumably because he then had to work with his back to the game, he chucked being a steward to become a full time fan again like he was when he was a boy going with his grandfather.  He took my sister, Kerry, down to the matches, but she was only interested in playing dolls with her cousin, Alison.

I moved away in 2014 and started comibg to the matches for a few months before I left so I can spend a few weekends drinking beer and wawashing the sons with the old man and I've been to a few since I got back.  I'll be taking up his season ticket for the remainder of the season so deepest apologies to Robert, katrina and the bankie in front for the shite banter you're gonna have to hear for the next few weeks!

 

A special thank you to the club for the kind tribute on the Web page today as well.

Thank you all.  Reading these does help a lot with what we're going through at the moment which has been frankly awful.

 

He was an amazing man, father, husband, friend and my personal hero who I will never forget!

 

See you all very soon from Sean M72!

 

Sean Smith

 

Sincerest condolences to you and your family. I spoke to your Dad briefly on a few occasions and he always came across as a very genuine person with a real passion for the Sons. Best wishes to his family and friends.

[Sweet Pete]

Terrible news, so sorry to hear of your father's passing. He contacted me a few seasons ago to invite me for a beer and it saddens me that we never got around to it.

[The Moonster]

http://www.dumbartonfootballclub.com/news/?mode=view&id=2966

Another "update" from Wilson. We still don't have a clue what we're building but he's "appointed" every man and his dug to have a look at the plans. He also mentions Your Sport Your Home (social enterprise company) who are apparently going to tell us how sustainable we'll be. I've had a look at their website and it doesn't really detail the sort of projects they've undertaken. It appears to be community sports halls that these guys have helped out with, I've no idea if they've helped out with £13.5M profit making exercises before but I suppose we'll find out soon enough. In any case, I think he's getting ahead of himself here - we need to prove that actually building the fucking thing is financially viable before we can start talking about what we're going to be running after it's built.

Wilson very kindly left out any contact details for this mob, so here they are if anyone fancies doing their own digging.

http://www.yoursportyourhome.co.uk/contact/

[Jan Vojáček]

You know what would be really great? If Wilson had the guts to address the fans face-to-face in the community suite before the Falkirk game. Stand up in front of us, give a wee speech and take a few questions. That would mean far more than some wee press releases stuck on the website every month or so.

If he's got nothing to hide then he's got nothing to lose by doing that.

[The Moonster]

4 minutes ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

You know what would be really great? If Wilson had the guts to address the fans face-to-face in the community suite before the Falkirk game. Stand up in front of us, give a wee speech and take a few questions. That would mean far more than some wee press releases stuck on the website every month or so.

If he's got nothing to hide then he's got nothing to lose by doing that.

He's got nothing new to tell us. He clearly thinks he's keeping us informed with these updates but really, they tell us nothing.  For months, possibly even years, we've been hearing that "over the coming weeks we'll be doing this and that" and 3 weeks down the line it's another update telling us "over the coming weeks...".  There will come a point when he can't hide behind these "progress" updates and he'll have to justify his final plans. I doubt he'll do that face to face with anyone though, it'll be statements which aren't very clear or concise and then he'll complain when everyone reacts badly to it.

[Nowhereman]

27 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

He's got nothing new to tell us. He clearly thinks he's keeping us informed with these updates but really, they tell us nothing.  For months, possibly even years, we've been hearing that "over the coming weeks we'll be doing this and that" and 3 weeks down the line it's another update telling us "over the coming weeks...".  There will come a point when he can't hide behind these "progress" updates and he'll have to justify his final plans. I doubt he'll do that face to face with anyone though, it'll be statements which aren't very clear or concise and then he'll complain when everyone reacts badly to it.

If he could justify their plans then he would have done it before now. As we all know there is nothing in the plans that suggests this is for the benefit of DFC rather than the benefit of Brabco. Any benefits to the football club could easily have been outlined by now. I can't see any, can you?

[The Moonster]

Just now, Nowhereman said:

If he could justify their plans then he would have done it before now. As we all know there is nothing in the plans that suggests this is for the benefit of DFC rather than the benefit of Brabco. Any benefits to the football club could easily have been outlined by now. I can't see any, can you?

There isn't any working document that we can scrutinise at the moment, it's just ideas that have been floated and some loose drawings produced. But, he has said they'll be submitting their planning application in June, so I'd expect at that point that the plans are at least at a stage where something tangible can be distributed to shareholders/fans for comments.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

There is an odd aspect to all of this, as essentially we have a two-sided triangle in play right now.  Where we should have input from Brabco, the club's majority shareholder and proponents of this scheme, the fanbase and the community (currently represented by the Trust), and finally the Board of Directors of Dumbarton Football Club, there has been until now an almost deafening silence from the latter.

Has the full Board ever met to discuss this proposal ?  Has every Board member been consulted and had input ?  If so, is there unity of purpose?  Has the DFC Board, or representatives of it, met in open session with Brabco to discuss the proposed venture ?  And crucially, does the Board of DFC fully support Brabco's intentions ?

A public statement on all of the above would I believe be helpful at this time.  I'm wondering too what effect relegation would have in relation to the relocation plan and the future sustainability of any development.

Edited April 20, 2017 by O'Kelly Isley III

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Who have the company quoted by Wilson been involved with before?

I see from the post in the OS that they were founded on the principle that "every sports club deserves a home". If that is the case why would they even remotely support a project that involves stripping the club of the ownership of a perfectly suitable home to relocate them to a home they don't own?

Another utter shan statement from the Lannister of the Shire.

[thekorean]

Forgive my ignorance (new to Scottish football in general) but from what I see, Dumbarton Football Stadium area has all the land in the world to build new stand on.

Why do they want to move to new location?

[Jan Vojáček]

5 minutes ago, thekorean said:

Forgive my ignorance (new to Scottish football in general) but from what I see, Dumbarton Football Stadium area has all the land in the world to build new stand on.

Why do they want to move to new location?

Welcome to Scottish football, shame about your team, but you can't have everything I 'spose 

I believe that the Council won't let us enlarge the current site - something to do with us only having one access road to the stadium. That would make a move perfectly understandable if we were filling out the Rock at the moment...but our average attendance is just over 1000 this season, and only Rangers and Hearts (two teams we are unlikely to be sharing a league with again) have came close to filling it.

The move has been mooted for years, in fact it must be nearly a decade now. It's primarily a money making scheme for our owners (which is not an issue, so long as it suits the club), however with their being so many basic issues that need resolved (we still don't actually know all the folk involved in Brabco, it will be built on a floodplain, it will cost £14m+, we still haven't seen a breakdown of costs to name but a few) that I can't see it getting the fans' backing any time soon.

[sons'r'us]

Forgive my ignorance (new to Scottish football in general) but from what I see, Dumbarton Football Stadium area has all the land in the world to build new stand on.

Why do they want to move to new location?

 

It's a bit more complicated than that but basically the existing group of controlling shareholders wish to make a profit on their investment and are attempting a relocation smokescreen in their bid to do this.

 

Expanding the existing resources will not return a profit for the shareholders so is not on the agenda.

 

[thekorean]

Just now, sons'r'us said:

 

It's a bit more complicated than that but basically the existing group of controlling shareholders wish to make a profit on their investment and are attempting a relocation smokescreen in there bid to do this.

Expanding the existing resources will not return a profit for the shareholders so is not on the agenda.

Oh god, they are not planning on selling the ground and leaving the club without a home are they?

Too many times has football clubs been lost that way.

[Jan Vojáček]

Just now, thekorean said:

Oh god, they are not planning on selling the ground and leaving the club without a home are they?

Too many times has football clubs been lost that way.

Pretty much, aye.

We've got Iain Wilson's (Club and Brabco director) word that they won't, and a peppercorn rent will be arranged on something like a 100 year lease. However given we only met him about six months ago, and his attitude has been, at best, pompous. I wouldn't trust him to hold my programme whilst I nipped to the loo never mind with the future of my football club.

If we are to move then we absolutely have to own the new stadium. Any sort of move otherwise would be madness, our Bankie neighbours are testament to that.

[thekorean]

15 minutes ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

Pretty much, aye.

We've got Iain Wilson's (Club and Brabco director) word that they won't, and a peppercorn rent will be arranged on something like a 100 year lease. However given we only met him about six months ago, and his attitude has been, at best, pompous. I wouldn't trust him to hold my programme whilst I nipped to the loo never mind with the future of my football club.

If we are to move then we absolutely have to own the new stadium. Any sort of move otherwise would be madness, our Bankie neighbours are testament to that.

Clydesbank being rebranded as Airdrie v2.0?

That has to be the Scottish equivalent of MK Don right?

[BallochSonsFan]

It's complicated.

 

The argument for moving is 2 fold:

 

- The owners want to make a profit on their investment

- The club could well use revenue from activities beyond match day.

 

On the first point? The owners have never really claimed otherwise. We know they want to make money on their investment.

 

On the second? We're enjoying our highest sustained league position for 20 years and more. We start every season in the Championship as favourites for relegation and so far we've confounded our critics by surviving. We're a part time team with a small fan base. We have a finite amount of revenue from ticket sales, sponsorship, prize money etc. Every year we more or less break even but it's a struggle and we bravely battle for our safety in the Championship. More money in the account means a stronger future for the club. The owners see this as being achievable by way of new facilities such as all weather football pitches and office/commercial property that can - in theory - give us that extra revenue.

 

So the intention is a win/win deal where the owners make a return on investment and where we get the means of bringing more money into the club through a modern stadium with facilities to generate income outside of football matches.

 

There are obvious benefits if everything goes 100% to plan and all of the owners' intentions are realised. There are obvious dangers if nothing goes to plan, not least of which is being moved to the outskirts of town to a ground we can't afford to run and that doesn't deliver the promised benefits. We've been told that all of the risk in the development sits with the owners and not the club. That doesn't mean that we can expect to take possession of the keys to a new stadium and suddenly find ourselves flush with cash. If we don't get it right then we could effectively be picking up a loaded gun if we take those keys.

 

The key is in whether or not the owners can deliver what they intend, whether or not what they intend is sustainable and whether or not whatever we might end up with is fit for purpose, affordable and sustainable.

 

It might work. It might not. There's some way to go before fans are convinced. That's where proper engagement between the owners, club directors, supporters and the local community as a whole is so important.

 

What is clear is that whatever we ultimately do, we're committing to it for the foreseeable future. We can't move and regret it a year down the line. Likewise we can't stay put and regret not moving. It's a massive decision for the club and we need to make sure that it's the most informed decision we've ever made. Getting it wrong would be disastrous. Whatever we do will carry risk, but how we get from where we are today to where we'll be in 5 years time is the most important set of decisions facing the club.

 

Whether we stay or go, we need to know that it's the best informed decision possible. That means scrutiny of every aspect of the proposal. It's the owners' case to make in favour of moving to a new stadium. It's a case that has so far not been made to anything like the required standard for fans to really have confidence in.