Sons' sorrow

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

We're happy to be level-headed and respectful, because that's what we are.  If it's not reciprocated, that's a telling comment about those not doing the reciprocating. 
As to the remarks we're responding to. Er, they're not exactly a masterclass in "how to win friends and influence people", are they?
Nor do they immediately seem to evidence the balanced judgement you'd hope for from someone heading up a major development involving a significant community facility...   (Well, that's what someone said to me this morning. I couldn't possibly comment.)
Simon

Bang on the money, Simon.

Keep up the good work.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

“Housing has been encroaching on the stadium. We’re constrained in increasing the capacity but also what we can do around it for the community and for generating income for the club.

Housing is not encroaching. It's been built. There will be no housing built on our land unless, you guessed it, Brabco say so. We've filled our stadium about twice, against Rangers, in 17 years. I don't see us being in the same league as Rangers again, so that won't be an issue. If you want to involve the community more, then start trying to get them involved. How about some sort of special entry scheme for the Betfred Cup? Free for U16s, ST holders can bring a friend at a reduced rate, get a few players up at VOLA or Dumbarton East or wherever there's a pitch and do some sort of summer coaching thing for local kids. I've no doubt we have players who will have their eyes set on coaching, so it's a win/win. Would it really be difficult to get David Smith or Darren Barr or whoever to spend 3 hours or so working with some kids who would probably look up to them, and may even become fans? If we want to get into the community that's the sort of thing we should be doing.

Without wanting to detract from the general tone of your post, which is fundamentally none of my business, I just wanted to point out that in a cup tie you can't do these things without agreement of the opposition who get half of the gate. Or you can but you'd need to pay them their half for the u16's and reduced entries regardless of not receiving it yourself which is pretty counter productive. Such initiatives should really be reserved for League games where it's up to you what you do.

[The Moonster]

6 minutes ago, TheFarPost said:

Nor do they immediately seem to evidence the balanced judgement you'd hope for from someone heading up a major development involving a significant community facility...   (Well, that's what someone said to me this morning. I couldn't possibly comment.)

Compare anything the Trust has put out with any Brabco/Wilson piece and ask anyone who they'd prefer running this project. I don't think Mr Wilson would like the answer.

Top work again with our response, Simon.

[Jan Vojáček]

9 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Without wanting to detract from the general tone of your post, which is fundamentally none of my business, I just wanted to point out that in a cup tie you can't do these things without agreement of the opposition who get half of the gate. Or you can but you'd need to pay them their half for the u16's and reduced entries regardless of not receiving it yourself which is pretty counter productive. Such initiatives should really be reserved for League games where it's up to you what you do.

Dang. We'll just have to get Ian Wilson to go on the charm offensive with the opposition in that case then.

In fact, come to think of it, that might not be the greatest technique. 

Even without a reduced ticket scheme - assuming that nothing could be agreed - it would be nice to try and attract a healthy crowd early on, when optimism is high and the weather is decent. Plenty of build up ahead of the 'big kick off', players in and around the local area a bit, loads of local paper coverage, posters and so on to try and build things up a bit. Even if it is just a home match with Albion Rovers or Peterhead or whoever, it could be enough to entice people back.

[TheFarPost]

2 hours ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

I've not read it yet, but this looks like the article to me

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/849241/dumbarton-can-cash-in-on-new-stadium-plan-on-and-off-the-pitch-says-ian-wilson/

Just a wee warning, it opens with a picture of Wilson up the Rock holding a scarf. Stand back from your monitors if you feel like such an image may lead you to violence. 

Thanks for this. Couldn't find it when the trust's response was posted earlier today. We'll link it. 

I notice that it's open for comments at present. 

[Jan Vojáček]

25 minutes ago, TheFarPost said:

Thanks for this. Couldn't find it when the trust's response was posted earlier today. We'll link it. 

I notice that it's open for comments at present. 

Well spotted. I've stuck up my post from on here, might as well air it to a wider audience. 

[DumbartonTheSons]

Fixing things now whilst we are in this division, with good travelling supports and good prize money, is surely the most sensible option and one that any good business man would take. 

Any good business man who does genuinely have the club's interests at the forefront of his plans, yes...

[Young gun]

This part amused me

He has been saddened at a small minority who seem opposed to the move, planned for the start of the 2019/2020 season, particularly because as a Coventry supporter he has suffered through the catastrophic consequences of owners using a club as a cash cow.

[sons'r'us]

Reading that article makes me so angry. It's so one sided it can't be taken seriously. I can't even begin to pick holes in it there are so many. A complete insult to our intelligence.

[TheFarPost]

6 hours ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

The first thing that hit me was how poor it is on a journalistic level. It acts almost as a propaganda piece for Wilson and Brabco. Why didn't Gareth Law tackle him on any of his comments? Why didn't he ask what the fans' concerns were? Why didn't he bring up the financial issues with a move? Why didn't he reference Jackie Baillie's comments on the matter? Why didn't he speak to Simon (or any other fans) to get their views? 

I'm afraid I'm tempted to suggest that there's a pretty simple answer to those perfectly valid and reasonable observations  and questions. In shorthand, "the Murdoch press". (Did I say that?  Of course not...)

Anyway, we've tweeted our response to the journalist concerned, and I'm talking to people I know close to (but not part of) the paper concerned to see if there's background on this piece which is worth knowing. I wouldn't have thought that the Scottish Sun will be doing any further digging behind the rhetoric themselves, but we'll see.  It's worth remembering that other nationals have already covered DFC's offshore ownership, and indeed that is where the renewed interest from the Reporter came from -- we've simply been responding appropriately as a trust. So while one paper has run what is effectively a "puff piece" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/puff_piece), there are plenty of others that retain an interest and won't be wasting their breath on puffing as the story develops. Which it will.

As to what the comments in this piece are supposed to be achieving for their protagonist... well, your guess is as good as mine. (As has been said many times by many wise people in the past: "the facts are out there." And while there are people who care enough* to make sure that the right influencers / decision makers attend to the facts, they won't go away...)

Simon

*That's us fans, by the way. 

Edited April 10, 2017 by TheFarPost

[TheFarPost]

In an entirely unrelated piece of news, I have just had to explain to my wife what a "cockwomble" is.   (Thankfully, she didn't look at me and then take a wild guess...)

Edited April 10, 2017 by TheFarPost

[Howlin' Wilf]

"They will also own the new site, even though in an ideal world they would gift it to the Sons.

But that would saddle the Sons with a tax bill they can’t afford and instead Brabco are likely to hand them a lease for over 100 years"

The plan all along as I have stated before.

[Howlin' Wilf]

The tax bill thing is a mystery. Wilson stated at one of the meetings that owning the stadium would land DFC with a 'capital gains tax bill'. As DFC is a limited company it isn't liable for capital gains tax. It is however liable for corporation tax. If my understanding is correct though, that would only be payable on realising an asset, not owning it....

[TheFarPost]

7 minutes ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

The tax bill thing is a mystery. Wilson stated at one of the meetings that owning the stadium would land DFC with a 'capital gains tax bill'. As DFC is a limited company it isn't liable for capital gains tax. It is however liable for corporation tax. If my understanding is correct though, that would only be payable on realising an asset, not owning it....

Correct. Getting that verified by a senior tax accountant. 

Simon

[lionel wickson]

21 minutes ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

The tax bill thing is a mystery. Wilson stated at one of the meetings that owning the stadium would land DFC with a 'capital gains tax bill'. As DFC is a limited company it isn't liable for capital gains tax. It is however liable for corporation tax. If my understanding is correct though, that would only be payable on realising an asset, not owning it....

But, but, but this guy was a partner at PricewaterhouseCoopers donchaknow...

https://www.pwc.co.uk/who-we-are/pantomime.html

[Nowhereman]

The tax bill thing is a mystery. Wilson stated at one of the meetings that owning the stadium would land DFC with a 'capital gains tax bill'. As DFC is a limited company it isn't liable for capital gains tax. It is however liable for corporation tax. If my understanding is correct though, that would only be payable on realising an asset, not owning it....

Yes And why would Brabco need to gift it? If D F C sold the current ground and then bought new ground where does the 'gift' come in?

[Silverton End]

2 hours ago, Young gun said:

This part amused me

He has been saddened at a small minority who seem opposed to the move, planned for the start of the 2019/2020 season, particularly because as a Coventry supporter he has suffered through the catastrophic consequences of owners using a club as a cash cow.

Indeed.

Coventry City currently rock bottom of League 1 & heading for League 2 or worse.

 

 

[Silverton End]

I've said before that if this move happens, it'll spell the end for DFC.

Stuck in a field, near a bypass, on the edge of town.

In other words - forgotten.

 

 

[DumbartonTheSons]

I've said before that if this move happens, it'll spell the end for DFC.
Stuck in a field, near a bypass, on the edge of town.
In other words - forgotten.
 

I'm in full agreement that it would, under current plans and terms, be awful for the club, but just slightly playing devil's advocate here, forgotten by who?

Nobody in the town other than fans and supporters of the club care a jot about us. The council doesn't either, and there are more buses leaving for Glasgow every second weekend than folk who, aside from genuine supporters like us, care about the club.

I'm in full agreement that this would at the moment be an awful move for the club, but not because we'd be forgotten, more for the financial impact on and long-term future of the club.

[DumbartonTheSons]

This part amused me
He has been saddened at a small minority who seem opposed to the move, planned for the start of the 2019/2020 season, particularly because as a Coventry supporter he has suffered through the catastrophic consequences of owners using a club as a cash cow.

This is the part that still really rankles with me. Either, he's too foolish to realise the sickening irony of the comparison, or he thinks we are too foolish to, that his own club (apparently) appears to be embroiled in such a mess having done seemingly almost exactly what he's suggesting happens with our club. Utterly baffling.