Miguel Sanchez Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell I like the idea that 99% of people who reference it don't have a fucking clue what they're talking about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 9 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said: Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell I like the idea that 99% of people who reference it don't have a fucking clue what they're talking about. I’m not sure that’s true, but maybe you can enlighten us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Granny Danger said: I’m not sure that’s true, but maybe you can enlighten us. You might need to wait a bit, I'm a bit busy this weekend. If the specifics of the statistics are your issue then you can replace "99%" with "the majority" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 15 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said: You might need to wait a bit, I'm a bit busy this weekend. If the specifics of the statistics are your issue then you can replace "99%" with "the majority" So from 99% to 50% +1? Hope you don’t have a job where numerical accuracy is important. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Whilst in hospital recently I received "The housekeeper and the Professor" by Yoko Ogawa along with a nice message from one of the yummy mummies from the school I work at. I think she wants to "mother me" despite her being younger than me! Book is a bit meh so far..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Granny Danger said: So from 99% to 50% +1? Hope you don’t have a job where numerical accuracy is important. I realise Orwell is famed for a plainer, straight-forward style of writing but I wouldn't have thought the sense of exaggeration for effect should be lost on you 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Miguel Sanchez said: I realise Orwell is famed for a plainer, straight-forward style of writing but I wouldn't have thought the sense of exaggeration for effect should be lost on you It wasn’t exaggeration for effect. You were suggesting you understood the underlying message of the book (which you very well may do) whilst very few others did. That’s very pretentious. In fact it’s doubleplus bad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: It wasn’t exaggeration for effect. You were suggesting you understood the underlying message of the book (which you very well may do) whilst very few others did. That’s very pretentious. In fact it’s doubleplus bad. Tell you what, we'll have a preview. I'm not even being as pretentious as I should be since I know you've at least read Coming Up for Air, and probably more of Orwell. What, in your opinion, if you had to pick a single one, is the underlying message of Nineteen Eighty-Four? Edited December 30, 2017 by Miguel Sanchez 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said: Tell you what, we'll have a preview. I'm not even being as pretentious as I should be since I know you've at least read Coming Up for Air, and probably more. What, in your opinion, if you had to pick a single one, is the underlying message of Nineteen Eighty-Four? 1. I’m not helping you dig yourself out of a hole. 2. I’m winding you up and am amazed that you’re reacting to it. 3. The underlying message is that 1984 was a worse year than 1983 but probably not as bad as what 1985 was going to be.* * that’s not true. FWIW I don’t think that there’s a single underlying message. It is a critique of totalitarianism but furthermore a warning of how easy it could be for governments to guide folk towards such totalitarianism. It was written in part with the recognition of how easy Hitler managed to force a nation to adopt an ideology that most of them would never have considered adopting. Turning ordinary folk into informers and feeling the need to perpetuate a system that most would have questioned had they not been so frightened. How mob mentality can drive people to accept norms that they would not otherwise. It is a multi layered book and I doubt I’m doing it or it’s author justice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 TBF I would agree 99.999% of people who cite 1984 probably haven't even read it,just know the famous bits or if they have read it they appear to have focussed on a very superficial part of it ie the system in which the characters live. Anyone could write a dystopian piece about a totalitarian government. What Orwell does brilliantly is examine the impact that has on individuals and their relationships. He does the same thing in his non fiction (Down and Out in Paris and London, Road to Wigan Pier etc) which aren't just poverty porn but intense examinations of what that does to people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 35 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: TBF I would agree 99.999% of people who cite 1984 probably haven't even read it,just know the famous bits or if they have read it they appear to have focussed on a very superficial part of it ie the system in which the characters live. Anyone could write a dystopian piece about a totalitarian government. What Orwell does brilliantly is examine the impact that has on individuals and their relationships. He does the same thing in his non fiction (Down and Out in Paris and London, Road to Wigan Pier etc) which aren't just poverty porn but intense examinations of what that does to people. You’re not agreeing with anyone as no one has been stupid enough to make the assertion that only one in one hundred thousand folk who cite the book have read it. There’s about 4.5 million folk in Scotland who would be old enough to be able to read the book; you’re suggesting only 45 have done so. If you want to weigh in on a discussion be more sensible. BTW I agree about The Road To Wigan Pier and Down And Out In Paris And London. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Danger you're somewhat spoiling the theme of my contributions to this thread being as concise and vague as possible (Yes, it's proving to be a good thing when I go beyond one sentence reviews) For what it's worth, I found Down and Out to be somewhat voyeuristic: http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/topic/18033-last-book-you-read/&do=findComment&comment=10237701 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 24 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said: Danger you're somewhat spoiling the theme of my contributions to this thread being as concise and vague as possible (Yes, it's proving to be a good thing when I go beyond one sentence reviews) For what it's worth, I found Down and Out to be somewhat voyeuristic: http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/topic/18033-last-book-you-read/&do=findComment&comment=10237701 My apologies Miguel. In my defence you deserve it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Miguel Sanchez said: Danger you're somewhat spoiling the theme of my contributions to this thread being as concise and vague as possible (Yes, it's proving to be a good thing when I go beyond one sentence reviews) For what it's worth, I found Down and Out to be somewhat voyeuristic: http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/topic/18033-last-book-you-read/&do=findComment&comment=10237701 Poor opinion, please reassess 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Danny Bakers latest On the Turn is another excellent piece of work. Stormed through it in 24 hours. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: Poor opinion, please reassess I'm not doubting Orwell's ability to write about poverty or social issues nor his sincerity in his opinions of them, but Down and Out came too early in his life to be as clear and focused as his later writing on the subject. I couldn't separate his wonderment at how the awful hotel in Paris operated like a machine from the descriptions of the appalling conditions he and people lived in. It felt like he was just observing The Poor and didn't have any concrete opinions about the causes, realities or possible solutions for them. Even his time spent tramping at the end felt insincere, as if he was just doing it to see what it was like then going home at the end of it. I realise this is effectively what happens in Wigan Pier but I can take that account more seriously. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said: I'm not doubting Orwell's ability to write about poverty or social issues nor his sincerity in his opinions of them, but Down and Out came too early in his life to be as clear and focused as his later writing on the subject. I couldn't separate his wonderment at how the awful hotel in Paris operated like a machine from the descriptions of the appalling conditions he and people lived in. It felt like he was just observing The Poor and didn't have any concrete opinions about the causes, realities or possible solutions for them. Even his time spent tramping at the end felt insincere, as if he was just doing it to see what it was like then going home at the end of it. I realise this is effectively what happens in Wigan Pier but I can take that account more seriously. Yeah I guess that's fair enough. TBH I haven't read it for about 10 years. I don't want to go all Orwell hipster but I think his best work on was earlier stuff like Coming up for Air. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tongue_tied_danny Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Orwell was a plagiarist c**t. 99% of the public don't know that 1984 is a complete rip off of We by Yevgeny Zamyatin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 35 minutes ago, tongue_tied_danny said: Orwell was a plagiarist c**t. 99% of the public don't know that 1984 is a complete rip off of We by Yevgeny Zamyatin. Hardly. Dystopian totalitarian future books were all the rage in 30s and 40s unless you think Huxley,Bradbury Rand,Vonnegut, Kafka all ripped off Zamyatin too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 1 hour ago, tongue_tied_danny said: Orwell was a plagiarist c**t. 99% of the public don't know that 1984 is a complete rip off of We by Yevgeny Zamyatin. I'm not sure it's plagiarism if you send a letter to your editor before starting that you're going to write something like something that already exists At least it's not very good plagiarism 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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