Walking Down The Halbeath Road

[TheMessiah]

3 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

Because Aird was really, really good for us? Because there was a chance that he would move this summer for f**k all? Why would him being on a contract matter, Ashcroft was already on a contract, one year deal for him? 

Where did I say that we'd offered Clark a 1 year deal? Again, try reading. 

Can Ashcroft move next summer to another team for nothing? I'll let you figure the rest of the answer out. 

The fact of the matter is, and it'll be the fourth time I've typed it for you, is that offering Aird, one of the best performers we had and a key part to our end of season revival a one year deal was a mistake, if we had offered him a two year deal and he'd moved for more money then that's fair enough(Again, I've said that a few times now) however just offering a one year contract was foolish, as you've grasped, we are capable of giving out two year contracts. 

 

2 hours ago, TheMessiah said:

We clearly are capable of offering 2 year contracts and already have, hence Ashcroft getting one.

Why would we offer Aird a brand new 2 year deal when he was already on a contract with a 1 year option? 

How do you know Clark hasn't been offered a 2 year deal?

Should Ashcroft be offered a 1 year extension next summer so that he's not on a dreaded 1 year deal?

The fact of the matter is, that player's agents will try to move them to the place that 1. The most money is to be made and 2. The greatest prospects for their player's career is.

Looking at it objectively, we are a team that has been in the top division for one season in the last decade, following which our club very nearly went to the wall.

Dundee United are a much more lucrative option and, despite their recent ineptitude and failure to mount any serious title challenge, have much better prospects of escaping this division before we do.

If/when we are able to return to the top flight and stabilise ourselves there, we will be able to start looking at what the club is doing when players move for a free at the end of their contracts despite being offered new deals. As it stands, we're just not as appealing a club to play for the clubs that we see as our peers.

Quote

Again, try reading. 

We're not in a position to be offering 2 year deals to players who have played half a season without knowing what financial position we're going to be in the following season.

[HoBNob]

1 minute ago, TheMessiah said:

 

We're not in a position to be offering 2 year deals to players who have played half a season without knowing what financial position we're going to be in the following season.

So can Ashcroft move next summer for nothing? 

[TheMessiah]

1 minute ago, Grant228 said:

So can Ashcroft move next summer for nothing? 

No, because we sensibly secured a key player on a 2 year deal after being able to financially plan for next season.

I really don't see how you're picking fault with what the club has done here, aside from not dishing out 2 year deals weeks before the end of the season without even knowing for sure what league we'd be playing in.

[Poet of the Macabre]

No way we should have offered anyone a two-year deal before the play-offs were completed.

[HoBNob]

3 minutes ago, TheMessiah said:

No, 

Then how are his an Airds positions even remotely similar? 

 

If your unsure as to what I'm picking fault with, try reading. 

 

 

[Poet of the Macabre]

5 hours ago, Grant228 said:

No strop being thrown

 

On 17/05/2018 at 14:23, Grant228 said:

Absolutely laughable decision to 1)Not start getting contracts offered out to key players earlier and 2)Only offer one year contracts to said players. 

You deserve mediocrity with shambolic proceedings like that, another poor summer in store for AJ? Brilliant. 

Hmmm.

[TheMessiah]

Just now, Grant228 said:

Then how are his an Airds positions even remotely similar? 

 

If your unsure as to what I'm picking fault with, try reading. 

 

 

The question I'm asking you, is if you feel Ashcroft should be offered a 1 year extension at the end of next season to avoid him going into the last year of his contract and potentially moving for free?

Do keep up.

As a further question, do you believe we should have offered Aird a new contract, be it a 1 or 2 year deal, before we knew if we were going to be in the playoffs or not?

If no,  should we have offered Aird a new contract, be it a 1 or 2 year deal, before we had been eliminated from the playoffs?

The reason I am trying to figure out exactly what you're picking fault with is so I can determine whether I am misunderstanding you or you genuinely believe we should be dishing out contracts without being sure of our financial position or if you're just having a wee toys out the pram because they're probably going to United.

I'm thinking it's one of the last two, in which case I return to my earlier sentiments of asking you to stop having a bedwetting strop and have some faith in the club and AJ.

[DA Baracus]

How do folk know what Aird was offered?

[Stellaboz]

How do folk know what Aird was offered?

They don't, they're making shit up to have a moan. But the good thing is we get to have a moan about them.

[HoBNob]

8 minutes ago, Poet of the Macabre said:

 

Hmmm.

Another great, insightful post from you. 

5 minutes ago, TheMessiah said:

The question I'm asking you, is if you feel Ashcroft should be offered a 1 year extension at the end of next season to avoid him going into the last year of his contract and potentially moving for free?

Do keep up.

As a further question, do you believe we should have offered Aird a new contract, be it a 1 or 2 year deal, before we knew if we were going to be in the playoffs or not?

If no,  should we have offered Aird a new contract, be it a 1 or 2 year deal, before we had been eliminated from the playoffs?

The reason I am trying to figure out exactly what you're picking fault with is so I can determine whether I am misunderstanding you or you genuinely believe we should be dishing out contracts without being sure of our financial position or if you're just having a wee toys out the pram because they're probably going to United.

I'm thinking it's one of the last two, in which case I return to my earlier sentiments of asking you to stop having a bedwetting strop and have some faith in the club and AJ.

What on earth has that got to do with Fraser Airds contract situation? 

Aird doesn't have a year left on his contract, hence why he will be able to move for nothing this summer. 

Next year, as you have thankfully, eventually figured out, Ashcroft will still have a year left! Which means(This time I'll spell it out for you kiddo) he won't be able to move without a transfer fee! Is that all finally making sense? 

I believe we should have been sounding out players before the end of the playoffs definitely, do you genuinely think that if we got promoted we'd sign a whole new squad and keep absolutely none of the remaining players? Those considered "key" players who we'd like to  keep regardless of what division we were in, who have performed well enough to merit us thinking they could cut it in the Premiership should have been sounded out. Livingston seem to have managed it well enough so I'm going to go out on a massive leap here and say it probably isn't as implausible as it's appearing in your mind, shockingly. 

I literally couldn't care less what team they're going too, what I care about (Maybe it'll be the fifth team lucky, maybe you're actually reading this?) is that we could have offered Fraser Aird a two year deal, but we didn't. His performances more than merited it. 

Blindless faith is for the weirdos who pray to the giant sky fairies, I'll pass on that, you carry on if you wish. 

1 minute ago, DA Baracus said:

How do folk know what Aird was offered?

It's his agent that's been leaking his contract details to the record/sun/some red top. Hence why it came out earlier in the week he was to sign a 1 year deal with us, before it then emerging he's set to sign on for two at United. 

 

Hopefully his agent is just playing games in an effort to get us to offer a two year contract, hopefully. 

[TheMessiah]

2 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

Another great, insightful post from you. 

What on earth has that got to do with Fraser Airds contract situation? 

Aird doesn't have a year left on his contract, hence why he will be able to move for nothing this summer. 

Next year, as you have thankfully, eventually figured out, Ashcroft will still have a year left! Which means(This time I'll spell it out for you kiddo) he won't be able to move without a transfer fee! Is that all finally making sense? 

I believe we should have been sounding out players before the end of the playoffs definitely, do you genuinely think that if we got promoted we'd sign a whole new squad and keep absolutely none of the remaining players? Those considered "key" players who we'd like to  keep regardless of what division we were in, who have performed well enough to merit us thinking they could cut it in the Premiership should have been sounded out. Livingston seem to have managed it well enough so I'm going to go out on a massive leap here and say it probably isn't as implausible as it's appearing in your mind, shockingly. 

I literally couldn't care less what team they're going too, what I care about (Maybe it'll be the fifth team lucky, maybe you're actually reading this?) is that we could have offered Fraser Aird a two year deal, but we didn't. His performances more than merited it. 

Blindless faith is for the weirdos who pray to the giant sky fairies, I'll pass on that, you carry on if you wish. 

It's his agent that's been leaking his contract details to the record/sun/some red top. Hence why it came out earlier in the week he was to sign a 1 year deal with us, before it then emerging he's set to sign on for two at United. 

 

Hopefully his agent is just playing games in an effort to get us to offer a two year contract, hopefully. 

What an absolute state to get yourself in and still failed to actually answer my first question. 

You're having an absolute mare here buddy.

Have a juice cup and sit on the naughty step for a wee bit, chill yourself out.

[HoBNob]

2 minutes ago, TheMessiah said:

What an absolute state to get yourself in and still failed to actually answer my first question. 

You're having an absolute mare here buddy.

Have a juice cup and sit on the naughty step for a wee bit, chill yourself out.

I've not answered your first question because it bears absolutely no relevance to Airds contract situation. Which is what this whole discussion is about. 

 

I suspect that's finally dawned on you which is why you've reverted to type with some cliché ridden post, try throwing in the word "seething" next time, there's a good lad. 

[TheMessiah]

Just now, Grant228 said:

I've not answered your first question because it bears absolutely no relevance to Airds contract situation. Which is what this whole discussion is about. 

 

I suspect that's finally dawned on you which is why you've reverted to type with some cliché ridden post, try throwing in the word "seething" next time, there's a good lad. 

Are you okay? 

Why have you gotten yourself in such a state over this and how are you failing to understand what's happened?

[HoBNob]

Just now, TheMessiah said:

Are you okay? 

Why have you gotten yourself in such a state over this and how are you failing to understand what's happened?

I'm alright. 

My understanding was that you've made a bit of a c**t of it, and rather than try and discuss the matter further you're instead now trying to paint me out to "be in a state",  you could definitely be bashing out a few more PnB clichés, I have faith you undoubtedly will. 

[TheMessiah]

2 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

I'm alright. 

My understanding was that you've made a bit of a c**t of it, and rather than try and discuss the matter further you're instead now trying to paint me out to "be in a state",  you could definitely be bashing out a few more PnB clichés, I have faith you undoubtedly will. 

You actually believe we should be discussing contracts before knowing what league we're going to be playing in.

I think your understanding leaves a lot to be desired tbh.

Have a lie down.

[Salvo Montalbano]

You actually believe we should be discussing contracts before knowing what league we're going to be playing in.
I think your understanding leaves a lot to be desired tbh.
Have a lie down.

I don't think it's that outrageous to be talking about contracts without knowing what league we're being in at all.

For one thing, that's essentially what you do when you bring players in on pre-contract agreements and on longer deals than those that take you to the end of the current season (2 year deals in the summer and 18 month deals in January for instance). There are also plenty of clubs, ourselves included I'd imagine that look at, and discuss terms with players before the end of the season.

Discussing contracts absolutely should be done as soon as possible - signing them is another matter entirely. I'd like to think we'd have spoken to the majority of our key players and at least had initial discussions along the lines of "we'd like to keep you, we'll offer you this but if we get promoted you'll get more" and if we might well have actually done that.

[HoBNob]

16 minutes ago, TheMessiah said:

You actually believe we should be discussing contracts before knowing what league we're going to be playing in.

I think your understanding leaves a lot to be desired tbh.

Have a lie down.

Livingston, who were far more likely to change divisions than ourselves done exactly that. 

Does there understanding leave allot to be desired as well? 

[TheMessiah]

1 minute ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

I don't think it's that outrageous to be talking about contracts without knowing what league we're being in at all.

For one thing, that's essentially what you do when you bring players in on pre-contract agreements and on longer deals than those that take you to the end of the current season (2 year deals in the summer and 18 month deals in January for instance). There are also plenty of clubs, ourselves included I'd imagine that look at, and discuss terms with players before the end of the season.

Discussing contracts absolutely should be done as soon as possible - signing them is another matter entirely. I'd like to think we'd have spoken to the majority of our key players and at least had initial discussions along the lines of "we'd like to keep you, we'll offer you this but if we get promoted you'll get more" and if we might well have actually done that.

Even if we started talking to them in March, if they thought a move to a bigger club for more money was possible they would hold out until the end of the season anyway.

It's the way football works, especially with agents involved. I have absolutely no doubt that they had been informally discussed or, at very least, the players were told that contracts would be handled after the season had actually finished. Starting formal negotiations while the season is ongoing is just a needless distraction, potentially disruptive and makes no sense from a business perspective.

AFAIA players would have been free to open discussions with other clubs once there was <6 months remaining on their contracts, does this mean we should be wrapping up contracts in January?

If Aird and Clark leave, whether we started talking to them this week, last week or a month ago would have made absolutely f**k all difference.

[TheMessiah]

Just now, Grant228 said:

Livingston, who were far more likely to change divisions than ourselves done exactly that. 

Does there understanding leave allot to be desired as well? 

Livingston were able to sort out their budget once their Championship status had been guaranteed. 

The prospect of going up is so far beyond even their highest expectations of this season that they are able to act as early as they have.

They also have the luxury of knowing, no matter what, they will have a bigger budget than this year, meaning that choosing who to retain is a lot easier and quicker.

But Livingston's contract negotiations are completely irrelevant to ours, so don't really see why you are bringing them up. 

[TheMessiah]

Completely outwith the realms of possibility but Adam Hammill being out of contract at Barnsley gives me wet dreams.