Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Chuckinho]

Due diligence left he building a long time ago.

Things do seem to be moving along, but I still have a small inkling that Rangers will get out of this smelling of roses.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

My reading of the document is that proceeds from transfer fees will be excluded from the CVA pot for creditors, and may only be used for the running costs:

Yes but essentially the money goes to the creditors because they don't have to deduct money for the running of the club during the summer before the CVA process is finished. The only thing that doesn't stack up for me is that I didn't see any future payments to creditors, I would've thought that some payments over a number of years would be used to boost the pot. If run prudently in the future Rangers could clear millions in profits, if I was a creditor and gracefully accepting this offer to allow Rangers to survive I would be looking for long term payments on top of the money offered.

[ayrmad]

Ok, but how can they get away with it?

Because folk on the make don't give a shit about right and wrong, a wee wedge usually silences wagging tongues.

[Araminta Moonbeam QC]

1338298656[/url]' post='6283525']

Ok, but how can they get away with it?

Attempting to put assets beyond the reach of creditors could be an offence under the Insolvency Act, no?

Edited May 29, 2012 by Araminta Moonbeam QC

[Captain_Sensible]

Can someone explain, how can they sell assets valued at £111,000,000 for £5,500,000 without offering them for sale on the open market?

Aye, the January 2012 Management Accounts apparently valued property freeholds at £109,000,000.

The asset stripping has begun ?

Ibrox is valued on the basis of it being a football stadium.

In the real world, do you think there will be much demand out there for a 50,000 capacity football stadium in Govan?

On an alternative use basis, ie the real world, the valuation of £5.5 million is actually optimistic IMO!

Edited May 29, 2012 by Captain_Sensible

[ayrmad]

Building plots for what?

You would need planning permission first of all surely?

The land at Ibrox is probably less than worthless after you take demolition costs into account. The land at Murray Park is worthless without planning permission.

The valuation in that document appears to be wildly optimistic!

No land is worthless.

Minimal gamble for maximum return.

[Captain_Sensible]

Attempting to put assets beyond the reach of creditors could be an offence under the Insolvency Act, no?

er, but its the creditors who are being asked which option they want to follow!

The figure of £5.5m would be what the assets could realistically realise on the open market!

I think some folk are struggling to understand even the simple parts of all this!

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

No. The assets are sold to Green for £5.5m and transferred to a newco. The newco then has to apply to the SFA and SPL to transfer over membership.

The only plus of a newco is that, if the memberships are transferred, then so too are the sanctions. It should also mean that any dual contract investigation can still impose sanctions on the newco

Nope - H&D seem to have entered a binding agreement to see all the assets to Green for £5.5m - (a pre-pack newco)

INCREDIBLE!

Looks like Haudit & Daudit have committed to sell the Green brigade Ibrokes, Minty Moonbeams Park, Albion carpark and the players for just over £5 million in the event of a CVA being rejected and the club being liquidated. Surely to christ that can't be in the best interests of the creditors - if the beast is liquidated a fire sale of assets would raise more than that.

Charles Green and the administrators confirmed this when they announced Green had bought Craig Whyte's shares for £2. It is above their asset value in the CVA so it looks legit.

[Homer Thompson]

Looks like Haudit & Daudit have committed to sell the Green brigade Ibrokes, Minty Moonbeams Park, Albion carpark and the players for just over £5 million in the event of a CVA being rejected and the club being liquidated. Surely to christ that can't be in the best interests of the creditors - if the beast is liquidated a fire sale of assets would raise more than that.

I raised this earlier.

Its worse than that, though. The £5.5m is for the "Intellectual properties/Players/stock". The cost of the Freehold Property is "N/A". From that, it would appear that if Green buys the rest he gets the property thrown in free ... some sort of BOGOF deal??

[Pull My Strings]

Restricting teams to only playing 3 'foreigners' was found to be discriminatory even though you could employ as many foreigners as you wanted...Berlusconi had some of the best players sitting in the stand every week as they were not allowed to play more than 3 in any 1 game. That ruled was changed PDQ..

Actually, I believe that rule was deemed to be a restraint on the free movement of workers and not a discrimination issue at all.

In any event, age discrimination isn't unlawful per se it's far more nuanced than that. It's unlawful to unfairly discriminate against an individual on the grounds of a protected characteristic (including age) unless the act is in pursuit of a legitimate aim and the method of achieving that aim is proportionate. In short, nae chance.

[ayrmad]

Ibrox is valued on the basis of it being a football stadium.

In the real world, do you think there will be much demand out there for a 50,000 capacity football stadium in Govan?

On an alternative use basis, ie the real world, the valuation of £5.5 million is actually optimistic IMO!

Away and chase yourself.

[HanoMaSano]

Supporter Debenture Holders

5.27 The Company issued 6,050 debentures in 1990 to raise capital to fund the building of the club deck on the Govan stand at Ibrox. The debentures ranged in value from £1,000 to £1,650 and the total value of the issued debentures is £7,736,000. The debenture entitles the holder to various benefits (the ―Benefits‖, as defined in the debentures), including the right to purchase a season ticket in a designated seat and to have a plaque with their name affixed to the seat.

I know this isn't a big deal, and there are more interesting (ie. Bullsh!t) items in the document.

But maybe they could have secured more money for the creditors if they hadn't moved the club deck from the Main stand to the Govan..

[rajpelt]

Heard Chas new backer is indeed wonga.com

repayments only 4920943.4% a minute.

Out the pan and into the fire ya radgies!!!

Insert pleasing gif.

[Homer Thompson]

er, but its the creditors who are being asked which option they want to follow!

The figure of £5.5m would be what the assets could realistically realise on the open market!

I think some folk are struggling to understand even the simple parts of all this!

See above. The £5.5m isnt buying the property.

Charles Green and the administrators confirmed this when they announced Green had bought Craig Whyte's shares for £2. It is above their asset value in the CVA so it looks legit.

I know, Ive mentioned it a few times before

[GordieBoy80]

Let's hope all the football creditors(and everyone else) do the right thing and throw the proposal back at them for their astounding arrogance

Do the right thing for for football

Arsenal

AS Saint Etienne

Celtic

Chelsea

Dundee United

Dunfermline

Hearts

Inverness

Orebro

Scottish Premier League Limited !!!!!

SK Rapid

The Scottish Football Association !!!!!

The Scottish Football League !!!!!

You will hold a special place in our hearts if you do(OK probably not Celtic).

[Captain_Sensible]

No land is worthless.

Indeed. If the demolition costs are greater than the value of the land then, in net terms, its less than worthless!

Minimal gamble for maximum return.

The creditors need to make a decision based on what they think will realistically happen. I would imagine that the admiinistrators have asked for professional opinion on what the assets could realistically sell for.

[vikingTON]

In the real world, do you think there will be much demand out there for a 50,000 capacity football stadium in Govan?

Not to the Rangers asset book value of tens of millions, but yes. Given it is a likely prospect of some form of Rangers 2012 emerging from this car-crach, what is to stop a property investor adding Ibrox to his portfolio for, say, £15 million, and lease it back to the new club for £750,000, every year, for 40 years? Indeed they can put any sum they want upon it: the new club will not be looking to play anywhere else.

Dens' Park was owned and leased back to the club by a Dundee United director for a good few years, indeed, he may still own the stadium.

Edited May 29, 2012 by vikingTON

[Casey]

FFS!!

Green is committed to buy the assets for £5.5m.

Admin are not committed to accepting his offer.

So only if there are no better offers on the open market does it go for £5.5m.

Got it yet??

Edited May 29, 2012 by Casey

[Colin M]

Yes but essentially the money goes to the creditors because they don't have to deduct money for the running of the club during the summer before the CVA process is finished. The only thing that doesn't stack up for me is that I didn't see any future payments to creditors, I would've thought that some payments over a number of years would be used to boost the pot. If run prudently in the future Rangers could clear millions in profits, if I was a creditor and gracefully accepting this offer to allow Rangers to survive I would be looking for long term payments on top of the money offered.

Not sure I follow - the bit I highlighted seems to say that (along with season ticket sales, outstanding transfer fees due to them, and any prize money), the deal means that the creditors will NOT get the proceeds of any subsequent transfer fees as they are excluded assets. The only money going to the CVA is the 8.5 million from Sevco (minus 3 million running costs and D&P's costs) plus the proceeds if they get anything off of Collyer Bristow in court.

[Araminta Moonbeam QC]

1338299071[/url]' post='6283545']

er, but its the creditors who are being asked which option they want to follow!

The figure of £5.5m would be what the assets could realistically realise on the open market!

I think some folk are struggling to understand even the simple parts of all this!

Depends on the view that HMRC take. If they think the assets are worth more, then they could make representations in court that they are being sold at an undervalue, have transaction unwound. Its all subjective.