danlichtie Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 You're completely missing the point here, if they had paid the astronomical wages through the correct channels, without using ebt's then the wage bill would probably have doubled and they would never have been able to afford half of the players who won these trophies in the first place. I don't see how we can say they wouldn't be able to afford it - their revenue streams were the same as Celtic, their incomes from Europe was similar/the same as Celtic and the TV money was the same as Celtic. Both clubs were signing players of similar quality, ability and stature - I wasn't aware that Rangers wage bill was double that of Celtic's at the time. My real point is I feel if you start retrospectively stripping titles, it's a slippery slope. What about European qualification during that time, relegation, slightly higher finishes in the league that lead to increase prize money? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildog Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I don't see how we can say they wouldn't be able to afford it - their revenue streams were the same as Celtic, their incomes from Europe was similar/the same as Celtic and the TV money was the same as Celtic. Both clubs were signing players of similar quality, ability and stature - I wasn't aware that Rangers wage bill was double that of Celtic's at the time. My real point is I feel if you start retrospectively stripping titles, it's a slippery slope. What about European qualification during that time, relegation, slightly higher finishes in the league that lead to increase prize money? You're right stripping titles etc... would cause a monumental ball-ache, doesn't mean that we should just forget about all this. Who's yer big team BTW? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Buddie Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Chic Charnley Best ever to grace the SPL? Oh, right, no argument there, then, that's a stick-on! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Whether or not Rangers could have afforded or attracted the players if they were not paying through an EBT is not really relevant. The fact is they were used, and it gained them an advantage over their rivals. Player A is offered to Celtic & Rangers Celtic offer £20k a week, through the books. After tax he picks up maybe £12k. Rangers offer £20k a week, using the EBT to pay most of it. After the payment is processed he picks up £18k. Where will the player go? The financial advantage that comes with using the EBT will lead to a sporting advantage, which will lead to success on the park, which will bring in more money from CL qualification and the like, which leads to further sporting advantage. In fact, how Rangers managed to f**k that up completely is beyond me, that maybe says something about the incompetence of those running the club. Any club using an EBT, and I include Celtic as I know they used them, should have their records scrapped for any game a player who benefited from the payment participated in. Not just in Scotland, but in England as well. I like to think that the Rangers situation is just the tip of the iceberg, although I am wise enough to know that very little will be done to anyone. This is the pressure clubs are under, especially when signing foreign players. http://tinyurl.com/27faq3z There still is NO excuse for double contracts or EBTs used in a way that is not accepted by HMRC. If in doubt just go here http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kb5/hmrc/contactus/home.page and give them a call. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckinho Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The silence from the Rangers directors and employees while all this EBT and deliberate non-payment of PAYE and NI can almost be compared with Omerta. We don;t speak of this - capiche! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danlichtie Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 You're right stripping titles etc... would cause a monumental ball-ache, doesn't mean that we should just forget about all this. Who's yer big team BTW? I don't think it should be forgotten - and I don't think it will. The EBT case is likely to push Rangers into liquidation, and I would hope the SPL would dock points in future for their financial irregularities in these cases. Arbroath are my big team - who is yours? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Left Wing Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Care to explain that in English? Silly me, i thought you were implying that the vote would be done in such a way that meant Celtic could vote NO, knowing that the vote wouldn't actually matter. I can see now that only a fud would think that, as nobody knows how the voting will be done. Apologies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray_of_licht Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Slightly off topic but on Sunday theres a charity game at Maryhill Juniors ground and Chick Young is playing for Dukla Pumpherston. Might be worth going along. Not only do you get to help a good cause you get to hurl abuse at a fud. Now... back to the supposition, pointless bickering and bear baiting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DensDerry80 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 That's a very difficult question (for you it appears) But let's stick to slagging Rangers! i was just having fun there (not obvious to a few) to be fair we did sell him on so that one paid for itself! but i had forgotten CC could also stand for Chic Charnley! he was class imagine claudio and Larson up fron with charnely in midfield thats for another thread! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Oh yeah - totally agree there must be something that HMRC are interested in RFC about but as you will be aware, taxation is a hugely complex issue. I would not be surprised if HMRC were also knocking on the doors of the beneficaries of EBT if the court case goes against Rangers. Of course HMRC will chase the individuals. This is why I am surprised that Campbell Ogilvie (SFA President) hasn't voluntarily paid the full tax on what he received through his own EBT. Must make it easier for himself and would show some worthwhile leadership. I can see some personal bankruptcies coming of all this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambie's Pigeon Feed Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I try to keep up with this thread as much as I can but there are only so many hours in the day. Can someone provide a quick summary of what football clubs and chairmen have officially said on the matter under the following simple headings. Obviously nobody will have said anything concrete but big hints in statements and the like can be taken into account. In favour of newco getting back in Against them getting back in Not said a word on the mater Mixed messages 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribzanelli Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 It is utterly essential that there is full transparency. If no names are provided then you will build a conspiracy amongst the Rangers support who will claim that not naming them means there weren't any. I don't disagree with you, I just mean that I doubt the viewers will be creaming their pants if name X, Y and Z are revealed and feeling deflated if it is name A, B and C. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildog Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I don't think it should be forgotten - and I don't think it will. The EBT case is likely to push Rangers into liquidation, and I would hope the SPL would dock points in future for their financial irregularities in these cases. Arbroath are my big team - who is yours? Ayr Utd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckinho Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Ayr Utd. Why? Has their chairman come out against Rangers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danlichtie Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Ayr Utd. See you at Somerset Park next season then! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagsman411971 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 First Came the book; Then came the TV show; Now comes the movie; 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsod Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 For those of us exiled in Englandshire does anyone know if tonight's documentary is being shown down here for those of us not blessed/cursed with Sky? The one in November was repeated on BBC News channel in the early hours of the morning and I'm wondering if this might happen again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuyahoga Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I try to keep up with this thread as much as I can but there are only so many hours in the day. Can someone provide a quick summary of what football clubs and chairmen have officially said on the matter under the following simple headings. Obviously nobody will have said anything concrete but big hints in statements and the like can be taken into account. In favour of newco getting back in Against them getting back in Not said a word on the mater Mixed messages You'll no doubt read very shortly about MJ's comments. Can I just say in advance that I can't describe the anger and embarrassment he has caused me as a Killie supporter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 For those of us exiled in Englandshire does anyone know if tonight's documentary is being shown down here for those of us not blessed/cursed with Sky? The one in November was repeated on BBC News channel in the early hours of the morning and I'm wondering if this might happen again. Nah, The english really don't care about the SPL and they even care less about this "quintessential british club" You'll be able to watch it on iplayer though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildog Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 For those of us exiled in Englandshire does anyone know if tonight's documentary is being shown down here for those of us not blessed/cursed with Sky? The one in November was repeated on BBC News channel in the early hours of the morning and I'm wondering if this might happen again. I am presuming I'll be able to watch this on the BBC website somewhere ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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