Thereisalight.. Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Honestly, how did the juriors get 2 years off work? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A.F.C Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Major blunder IMO that doesn't get mentioned that much must be the decision to cram the larger support into the smaller end. Police still completely to blame, some should do time for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menzel Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Everyone's favourite Scottish blog bigot still maintaining the blame lies with fans, pathetic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardy Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) Was reading up on this and watching some of the footage on YouTube. Just mental how football used to be watched in stadiums back then. I can remember watching Rovers at the old ground but would obviously never experience anything like that crowd wise... There was evidence from previous fixtures played at Hillsbourgh that this could potentially happen..yet nothing was done about it. You would think with such a high profile game that an experienced Chief should have been in charge of the game. I just cannot fathom after watching the CCTV footage at 2.35pm that they didn't delay the kick off. It's absolutely absurd. Also the police never knew that past experience of opening the gate, should have led to the middle tunnel into pens 3 and 4 being closed. Just unreal. Then there's all the evidence regarding the safety of the ground...I'm not really sure what can actually happen in terms of actions against Sheffield Wednesday as a club though. As clearly their stadium has changed along with every other up and down the country. That's before you mention ownership etc. Strange one that, but I suppose it had to be included in the inquest. The game has changed so much now. I'm pleased for the families that they now have their proof that the 96 were unlawfully killed. Still more enquires to come though you would expect... Edited April 26, 2016 by Wardy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I see nothing wrong with the Celtic statement btw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Police still completely to blame, some should do time for it. Only those that were complicit in the cover-up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Everyone's favourite Scottish blog bigot still maintaining the blame lies with fans, pathetic He's odious. And yet people who should know better quote him ad nauseam when it comes to his views on independence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McQueen Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) So tomorrow's front pages of the Sun & Times newspapers don't even mention it. I actually thought they might try & apologize but what do I know. Edited April 26, 2016 by Steve McQueen 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardy Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 So tomorrow's Sun & Times newspapers don't even mention it. I actually thought they might try & apologize but what do I know. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/7106538/Hillsborough-verdict.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McQueen Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/7106538/Hillsborough-verdict.html I meant the front pages, realize it wasn't clear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 People in a rush to get to the game as they were late and desperate to get in. It's understandable but doesn't mean you can just act irresponsibly and use a 'nobody stopped me' excuse. Everyone's favourite Scottish blog bigot still maintaining the blame lies with fans, pathetic I suspect neither 7-2 nor 'Wings' have actually been to big games. It just is (was) not like standing in a supermarket queue and the blessing is that such events didn't happen more often. Ibrox, Hampden, Celtic Park and even Murrayfield were notorious for appalling crowd control 'back in the day'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Rogic Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Was reading up on this and watching some of the footage on YouTube. Just mental how football used to be watched in stadiums back then. I can remember watching Rovers at the old ground but would obviously never experience anything like that crowd wise... There was evidence from previous fixtures played at Hillsbourgh that this could potentially happen..yet nothing was done about it. You would think with such a high profile game that an experienced Chief should have been in charge of the game. I just cannot fathom after watching the CCTV footage at 2.35pm that they didn't delay the kick off. It's absolutely absurd. Also the police never knew that past experience of opening the gate, should have led to the middle tunnel into pens 3 and 4 being closed. Just unreal. Then there's all the evidence regarding the safety of the ground...I'm not really sure what can actually happen in terms of actions against Sheffield Wednesday as a club though. As clearly their stadium has changed along with every other up and down the country. That's before you mention ownership etc. Strange one that, but I suppose it had to be included in the inquest. The game has changed so much now. I'm pleased for the families that they now have their proof that the 96 were unlawfully killed. Still more enquires to come though you would expect... Duckenfield was appointed match commander less than 3 weeks before the tie despite never having been in charge of a major football match at Hillsborough or any other ground hence all the cataclysmic errors he made such as not filtering fans en route and closing the gate to the tunnel etc The man who would have taken charge that day, Brian Mole had vast experience of football crowds and that ground in particular, he had been moved from his position and transferred to another area after officers under his charge had played a sick prank on a new recruit, placing a bag over his head and holding a gun to him in some sort of weird joke. Incredible, and tragic to think that that bizzare set of circumstances led, in part to a whole chain of events with such a horrific outcome 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordo1872 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I'm presuming this verdict will open the door for compensation ?? Apologies if this has been answered already, I've not read through all the posts, but there will almost certainly follow a civil case and a significant compensation pay-out to the families and all those affected. For a civil case to succeed you have to demonstrate three key factors were at play; 1. That a duty of care existed, which everyone agrees it did. SY police, Sheff Wed, Ambulance all had a duty of care to those who attended that match. 2. That they failed in that duty of care and 3. That those affected suffered loss. Point three is obvious. Point to was what today's verdict confirmed. There should be criminal charges also. Whether or not there will be is open to debate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 One other thing that folk haven't mentioned about the crushing is the sort of "accordion effect" that happens in crowds. You also see it all the time with traffic jams. People at the front start moving, but there's a time delay in how long it takes for people further back to start moving. Those people then see a moving crowd, and keep going forward. If the people at the front are stopped, then that causes the crowd to move closer and closer together. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heedthebaa Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Was reading up on this and watching some of the footage on YouTube. Just mental how football used to be watched in stadiums back then. I can remember watching Rovers at the old ground but would obviously never experience anything like that crowd wise... There was evidence from previous fixtures played at Hillsbourgh that this could potentially happen..yet nothing was done about it. I think I've already said on here, I was in that end around 1983-4, the only time I'd been to a game and felt my life was in danger, a fucking atrocious way to treat supporters, but that was the norm back then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotSquid Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Uh huh. Except it hasn't, has it? The blame has been rightly been placed on the authorities - criminal incompetence at best - and the fans' actions ignored. This is politics. Again, why the false dichotomy between the authorities and the fans? Because the authorities were in control of the situation. That is where the blame should lie. Doesn't at all mean it had "f**k all" to do with the fans. Most people are capable of discerning the difference. Spot on. Anyone who has ever been to a football match watched by more than 2 people knows that the fans' actions contributed to the problems. They had to. But that was never going to be a conclusion. And rightly so. The main overwhelming failures were organisational and control. Criminal negligence, and hopefully criminal proceedings follow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordo1872 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 It could be argued, rightly or wrongly, that the fans played a marginal part in the outcome. Contributory negligence, but even at that you'd be putting a nominally low value on it. 1-2% for example. The other 98% lies solely with the authorities. I don't know what the criminal law said back then put had it happened nowadays the police and all the other parties that contributed would be held to account under the Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 for their negligence under the associated regulations. SY police should and probBly will face legal proceedings. I can't see how they couldn't following today's verdicts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) Too many people still focusing on 'fans behaviour' as some kind of cause. They were exonerated. As has been pointed out the actions of individuals and the actions of large crowds are not the same, and treating them as such is unhelpful. It's a bit like folk comparing the economy of a country to the economy of a household. It's simply too different to make such a simple point. Yes some fans would have been drinking. Yes some fans would have been acting like knobs. But that doesn't equate to blame. Edited April 26, 2016 by pandarilla -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) Major blunder IMO that doesn't get mentioned that much must be the decision to cram the larger support into the smaller end. It's worth saying that the Taylor Report rejected this, and (AFAICS) the inquest jury weren't asked to reach a resolution to the contrary. Excess tickets hadn't been sold (by official figures i.e. ignoring the ground deficiencies), and even after the gate was opened the stand as a whole wasn't overcrowded - the central pens were. It was all-ticket and had (just) sold-out. It's not thought ticketless fans were prevalent. Taylor concluded that had the allocations been swapped, but the course of events otherwise gone similarly, it might simply have been Forest fans: "I do not consider choice of ends was causative of the disaster. Had it been reversed, the disaster could well have occurred in a similar manner but to Nottingham supporters" Edited April 26, 2016 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I'm presuming this verdict will open the door for compensation ?? Could have phrased that better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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