qos_75

The Queen of the South Thread

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Have the doom and gloomers been keeping track of all the topics that have popped up on here this week discussing the huge amounts of players being released by our divisional rivals? Might put things in perspective for some people. Season ending = no games and no income = no funds or need to pay wages = no or few players signed. We aren't alone!

I'm not trying to say everything is rosy, but our season certainly isn't doomed before it has even began. There is going to be an unprecedented amount of players available for next season, the crucial factor as always will be identifying the right ones and getting the most out of whatever figure the board pluck from the air as "the budget". This of course means that making the right managerial appointment will be absolutely vital. There is a clear and obvious solution that instantly wipes out this crucial decision, but it won't be taken and I sadly believe it will be made based on personal, rather than footballing reasons. Not an ideal way to run a football club. Considering the bad feeling that already exists towards the board, and the financial implications of relegation, the wrong appointment could spell absolute disaster for the club, on and off the park.

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This of course means that making the right managerial appointment will be absolutely vital. There is a clear and obvious solution that instantly wipes out this crucial decision, but it won't be taken and I sadly believe it will be made based on personal, rather than footballing reasons. Not an ideal way to run a football club. Considering the bad feeling that already exists towards the board, and the financial implications of relegation, the wrong appointment could spell absolute disaster for the club, on and off the park.

I wouldn't say that the footballing reasons for offering him a new contract are all that compelling. I accept however that he's done well enough in that sense to merit another crack in normal circumstances.

The personal factor is a deservedly big one though. He's spread negativity from the outset. I'm no fan of the board, but some of his published comments about the club have been downright unprofessional.

He's deliberately given the impression all season of being outside the tent pissing in, rather than the other way round.

It's time to make this outsider status official.

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I wouldn't say that the footballing reasons for offering him a new contract are all that compelling. I accept however that he's done well enough in that sense to merit another crack in normal circumstances.

The personal factor is a deservedly big one though. He's spread negativity from the outset. I'm no fan of the board, but some of his published comments about the club have been downright unprofessional.

He's deliberately given the impression all season of being outside the tent pissing in, rather than the other way round.

It's time to make this outsider status official.

Spot on

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Our fearless leader in the Standard today saying they have 22 days to make a decision on the manager and players that are out of contract....

Did he say any more than that you know?

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He probably said "well you know" quite a lot, other than that no. Will get a look on my tea break.

Thanks you know. The online Standard you know is pretty poor, the latest story is 6 days old you know.

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Thanks you know. The online Standard you know is pretty poor, the latest story is 6 days old you know.

I think they deliberately don't publish online on the same day the paper is being sold. Annoying for us folks not in Dumfries though.

I think, you know, we're going to wait until all the decent personnel are signed up, you know, and then make our decision. You know.

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If a new manager was being put in place this week, he could have identified if there was one or two players he wanted to keep. That would at least give us the chance to make offers to them, albeit on reduced terms, so they at least know they're still wanted at queens. Of course, most will move on to better money. But who knows, there may be one or two willing to sign on reduced terms. Perhaps mcmenamin for example?

Undoubtedly we are holding off on all of this to save money, but surely some of the budget can be used to sign a manager sooner rather than later?!

I suspect that everything hinges on the SPL/championship announcement. They even want to hold off on the manager because if there's a guaranteed future income increase, they can get someone of better quality in.

But SD speaks a lot of sense re the manager. A new man coming in before now could have had the last couple of games to assess the squad, assess

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taking into consideration the cost of season tickets do they actually make more money this way rather than getting a traditional sponsorship?

That's not an easy question to answer normally though I would think that this season the answer would be a definite "yes".

First of all you'd only need to discount the cost of season tickets that are actually used. It's difficult to tell how many are, but we reckon in any given home game probably about half of them or slightly more are used. And even then, you only need to discount the ones that would otherwise have paid to get in. Some companies give them to employees to come along to a match which they wouldn't have gone to if they had to pay so there's no loss in that for the club.

Last year we sold 159 entries which meant income of £63,600. Even if you presume every season ticket is used every week by a full paying adult who would otherwise have paid then that still represents about £27,000 of pure shirt sponsor income. In reality it probably represents at least £35,000 after adjusting for unused tickets or those used by concessions.

Could we sell a season's shirt sponsorship in the first division for £35k? I don't know because it's a long time since anyone's actually asked but I doubt it, particularly not at the moment (though of course it's likely the actual entry will drop this season too I suppose). I did suggest a couple of years ago that we actually go out and see if we could sell the shirt and try to market the draw entries to do the same for the back of the shirt or something else. It was never done but to be fair I think the majority of entrants these days actually look forward to it and would be annoyed not to get the chance to enter. I doubt it will change unless we reached the SPL at some point and significantly increased the tv exposure of the shirt.

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Colin McMenamin on twitter saying he is talking to other clubs. When asked if there was any chance of resigning with Queens: "Doesn't look likely, still heard zero from Palmerston."

If we're so skint that we absolutely must save two weeks wages, (ie. from contract expiry to mid July,) why can't we just say to the guys we'd like to keep, there will be a contract for you in mid July if you want it?

Oh yeah, because we don't have a manager who can decide who to keep.

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If we're so skint that we absolutely must save two weeks wages, (ie. from contract expiry to mid July,) why can't we just say to the guys we'd like to keep, there will be a contract for you in mid July if you want it?

Two weeks from end of May to mid July?

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I assume he means June.

Why would we have to sign people in June though?

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You don't have to, I would imagine preseason starts last week of June? So that's why.

You don't have to be signed to do pre-season though. Airdrie signed their entire squad on the day before the first Cup tie last season. Thistle had some players in the same category such as Simon Donnelly.

I'm not saying we're necessarily not signing anyone over the summer because we can't afford it (though it's bound to be a consideration), but if that was the case we're certainly not talking about two weeks, we're talking about as much as 8 weeks potentially.

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Edit - before you anal it up, the players who are out of contract are not dross like maybe has been the case in the past with our out of contract players. If we don't offer them deals from the start of preseason or even sooner they will be off sharpish.

Too late.

And if they're off, then they are off. If they are good enough to get deals from teams still paying silly salaries in this division or to get SPL contracts then good luck to them. Offering them reduced value deals here isn't going to change their departures.

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See my edit, it's not 8 weeks though as the contracts are still being paid until the 31st of this month.

....which is about 8 weeks before the end of July when they'd need to be signed to play in the cup tie.

Again, I'm not saying that is the case, but neither are we talking about a fortnight here.

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Well we will never know will we if Davie Rae has his head in the sand, and is stamping his feet about the "missing fans".

Which worked brilliantly for your example Airdrie United....

Well I'd imagine it did financially. And they did ok to be honest. Mid-table, just missed the playoffs. Within the market they were working they certainly weren't the worst in their division.

It's easy to stamp your feet and scream and claim we should be doing this and that with players and managers (and I've already agreed the lack of decision on the manager at least is ridiculous and the communication with the players should probably be better, though I'd guess that is mainly a problem created by the manager issue) but who exactly is going to pay for it? We need to save £7k a week (and that presuming income holds up at the levels it did this year, which is probably optimistic).

And for all his sometimes appalling communications Davie Rae has a point about the fans. We couldn't "afford" the squad we have when we were getting 2,000 through the turnstiles regularly but at least the board could get somewhere near to subsidising it. We certainly can't get anywhere close to it on gates of nearer half that. Money doesn't grow on trees and Dumfries appears to have decided that it either doesn't want to or can't afford to support a club competing at these levels any longer.

Edited by Skyline Drifter
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Maybe, but him yittering on about it all the time isn't helping. What people want to hear are the facts of the cash flow problem, not "well you know, we have lost xxx fans you know. We thought you know, that the cup final would bring xxxx fans through the gates you know"

True and I 100% agree the release of information on the financial issues is something else that has been badly handled. The only place it was dealt with remotely properly was at the AGM (I know you weren't there).

For all his reasonably acceptable results on the field the manager's negative interviews and dreadful pr probably had much more effect on gates than anything Davie Rae said though. Another reason I'd have dealt with that issue months ago.

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Am I alone in thinking that KB's comments are pretty irrelevant to the drop in attendances? Subtle as a sledgehammer they may be but everything he has said is the truth, and a truth that most people in Dumfries know already. Him and Rae are as bad as each-other for repeating the same sound-bite. Rae with his "we need more fans" and Brannigan with his "the squad is too small". I got sick of hearing both, but just like Rae's plea for support fell on deaf ears, I don't particularly think Brannigan's wining about squad size had any negative impact.

The fickle Dumfries public will turn out for a "big game" be that a top of the league encounter against Caley Thistle, or a Cup tie against Hibs/Dundee/Rangers etc. They won't turn out week in/week out, and never have, long before Brannigan was boss and Rae was Chairman.

The comments I hear from people (friends and workmates) cite value for money as the primary factor (with the quality of football on show the reasons for not finding it value for money), and "lack of ambition", usually followed by comments like "Queens don't want to go up", "...can't afford to go up", "happy being mid-table in the First Division".

Now for all these comments are unrealistic, or just downright untrue, they don't mention the comments made by the manager as a reason for not going to games. For all that I consider myself a "diehard supporter" (I don't really because I detest that term), the only game I attended after the ALBA Final was the Dundee game. This was mainly due to the players throwing the towel in, and me not being in a position to pay the money required to watch the players go through the motions. Of course the fact our season was over was partly to blame for the players' attitude, but so too was the situation they all find themselves in because of the shambles caused by the Board.

So to conclude based on my evidence alone -

Fans lost due to comments by Brannigan - zero,

Fans (temporarily) lost due to actions of the board - one.

:P

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Players contract expiry dates are on their OS profiles and have been all season. They are mostly 31st May though Allan Johnston is 15th May and I think McMenamin might be also, though the OS does say 31st May for him.

Inevitably the final decision of whether to be full time or part time or a mix will have to lie with next year's manager, whether that be Brannigan or someone else. It's not up to the Board particularly or even terribly relevant to them. The Board's role is to set the playing budget. If the manager would prefer to get part-timers on that budget or try to assemble a full time squad on it (or a mix and match of the two) that's up to him.

Thats not what DR said in yesterdays Standard. He already has a list of players "he" wants to keep

Have the doom and gloomers been keeping track of all the topics that have popped up on here this week discussing the huge amounts of players being released by our divisional rivals? Might put things in perspective for some people. Season ending = no games and no income = no funds or need to pay wages = no or few players signed. We aren't alone!

I'm not trying to say everything is rosy, but our season certainly isn't doomed before it has even began. There is going to be an unprecedented amount of players available for next season, the crucial factor as always will be identifying the right ones and getting the most out of whatever figure the board pluck from the air as "the budget". This of course means that making the right managerial appointment will be absolutely vital. There is a clear and obvious solution that instantly wipes out this crucial decision, but it won't be taken and I sadly believe it will be made based on personal, rather than footballing reasons. Not an ideal way to run a football club. Considering the bad feeling that already exists towards the board, and the financial implications of relegation, the wrong appointment could spell absolute disaster for the club, on and off the park.

No other club in the division is without a manager though. Also, those that have released players have already done so, rather than leaving them hanging around until the end of the month. Finally, most have retained a core of this seasons squad rather than be left with one experienced outfield player under contract.

Well I'd imagine it did financially. And they did ok to be honest. Mid-table, just missed the playoffs. Within the market they were working they certainly weren't the worst in their division.

It's easy to stamp your feet and scream and claim we should be doing this and that with players and managers (and I've already agreed the lack of decision on the manager at least is ridiculous and the communication with the players should probably be better, though I'd guess that is mainly a problem created by the manager issue) but who exactly is going to pay for it? We need to save £7k a week (and that presuming income holds up at the levels it did this year, which is probably optimistic).

And for all his sometimes appalling communications Davie Rae has a point about the fans. We couldn't "afford" the squad we have when we were getting 2,000 through the turnstiles regularly but at least the board could get somewhere near to subsidising it. We certainly can't get anywhere close to it on gates of nearer half that. Money doesn't grow on trees and Dumfries appears to have decided that it either doesn't want to or can't afford to support a club competing at these levels any longer.

Who says we have to pay for them? Whats to stop the BoD announcing who will be released an who wont? Or to have had discussions with the players they want to keep about signing on reduced terms on a contract that starts in July? We know, from on here, that Morton have had a similar discussion with Jenkins, who turned them down and has been released.

Raes comments about these things being talked about over the next couple of weeks is nonsense. It should all have been talked about and decided a long time ago. Every other club has been doing it

Am I alone in thinking that KB's comments are pretty irrelevant to the drop in attendances? Subtle as a sledgehammer they may be but everything he has said is the truth, and a truth that most people in Dumfries know already. Him and Rae are as bad as each-other for repeating the same sound-bite. Rae with his "we need more fans" and Brannigan with his "the squad is too small". I got sick of hearing both, but just like Rae's plea for support fell on deaf ears, I don't particularly think Brannigan's wining about squad size had any negative impact.

The fickle Dumfries public will turn out for a "big game" be that a top of the league encounter against Caley Thistle, or a Cup tie against Hibs/Dundee/Rangers etc. They won't turn out week in/week out, and never have, long before Brannigan was boss and Rae was Chairman.

The comments I hear from people (friends and workmates) cite value for money as the primary factor (with the quality of football on show the reasons for not finding it value for money), and "lack of ambition", usually followed by comments like "Queens don't want to go up", "...can't afford to go up", "happy being mid-table in the First Division".

Now for all these comments are unrealistic, or just downright untrue, they don't mention the comments made by the manager as a reason for not going to games. For all that I consider myself a "diehard supporter" (I don't really because I detest that term), the only game I attended after the ALBA Final was the Dundee game. This was mainly due to the players throwing the towel in, and me not being in a position to pay the money required to watch the players go through the motions. Of course the fact our season was over was partly to blame for the players' attitude, but so too was the situation they all find themselves in because of the shambles caused by the Board.

So to conclude based on my evidence alone -

Fans lost due to comments by Brannigan - zero,

Fans (temporarily) lost due to actions of the board - one.

:P

No. Totally agree with your post. Fans in Dumfries will turn up for big games, or 'meaningful' games, and only the hardcore will be left for the the rest. It would be nice to increase the hard core support, but Ive no idea how. Financially, the club would be better off in a relegation battle, as crowds would probably increase. Maybe DR has twigged this and thats his plan for next season <_<

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Thats not what DR said in yesterdays Standard. He already has a list of players "he" wants to keep

I think you misread what I said. I said the manager would be the one to decide whether we be full time, part time or hybrid. I never said anything about deciding which players should be kept on, though obviously that should be the manager's decision to make in principle. Again, I'll repeat I believe the managerial issue should have been dealt with weeks ago if not months ago.

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I think you misread what I said. I said the manager would be the one to decide whether we be full time, part time or hybrid. I never said anything about deciding which players should be kept on, though obviously that should be the manager's decision to make in principle. Again, I'll repeat I believe the managerial issue should have been dealt with weeks ago if not months ago.

Fair enough.

Although, I would have thought one pretty much implied the other. If the BoD are offering FT contracts to players, the manager cant then "decide" to go PT.

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