The Queen of the South thread

[Distant Doonhamer]

10 minutes ago, SUPERSOUTH said:

That's OK we didn't miss him as much as our Captain, the defence had another clean sheet.

They did but I`d rather have Fordyce at RB than either Rooney or Mercer TBH.

[Rjc-1988]

TNS were a better footballing team than we were - their attacking shape and high pressing game caused us so many problems. We were poor for an hour (the large travelling support deserved much better)but we improved in last 30 mins and dominated extra time. We were the fitter team as they ran out of steam.

I am not sure why we need to deploy our centre forward to man mark their attacking full back Spender. If they want Spender to play as a right winger we should pass him on to Marshall and look to exploit the space that he has vacated. If we had more confidence in our own ability his propensity to attack would actually give us a great chance to hit on the break but not if we have everybody back behind the ball.

McFadden was our best player and I thought the back 4 was solid. Overall our poor finishing cost us.

In the shoot out our hosts could hardly have been more charitable but despite the front door being wide open we somehow found a way to lose it.

GN made a very astute signing in Stirling - he has not been at his best since joining us but surely he has deserved more game time than he has had. I am all for young players getting a chance but Stirling must be a better attacking option at this point than Connor Murray.

TNS play football the proper way - they probably over elaborate in the final third but technically their players were collectively better than we were.

[19QOS19]

TNS were a better footballing team than we were - their attacking shape and high pressing game caused us so many problems. We were poor for an hour (the large travelling support deserved much better)but we improved in last 30 mins and dominated...

I must be in a minority but I really wasn't all that impressed with TNS. I certainly don't think they were better than us. They started far better but even when on top all they did was hit the bar. I'd say the opposite and that for the last hour we were the better side but couldn't score. We had by far the better chances as well.

A draw was a fair result but overall only one side deserved the win and we didn't get it.

[Sloop John B]

1 minute ago, 19QOS19 said:

 

I must be in a minority but I really wasn't all that impressed with TNS. I certainly don't think they were better than us. They started far better but even when on top all they did was hit the bar. I'd say the opposite and that for the last hour we were the better side but couldn't score. We had by far the better chances as well.

A draw was a fair result but overall only one side deserved the win and we didn't get it.

 

 

They were tidy enough without being particularly incisive and probably gave us enough time to get organised by being so slow to move the ball at times. Not sure whether the start just us not really knowing what to expect, but we figured them out as the game went on. If we played them again, I'd still say we'd beat them most times. We aren't ever going to pass teams off the park but whilst we are on the subject, I did hear in the Terrace Podcast that we create the most chances despite having one of the lowest possession stats in the league. Yet again dispelling this 'right way to play' shite.

[palmy_cammy]

Bizarre to criticise the switch to 4-5-1 when it was instrumental in turning the game in our favour after a slow start.

[QoS96]

Cant fault McFadden’s work rate, the guy ran the whole game but why is he so reluctant to play the ball out to Murray on the wing?

[KingfaetheSooth]

Yet again Naysmith comes out with the line that a penalty shoot-out  is a lottery.  Err no, it's something that can and should be praticed before Cup ties where they can often be the deciding factor.  Change the record FFS. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by KingfaetheSooth

[Northfield 53]

12 hours ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

Presumably St Johnstone don`t want him cup-tied. 

Same apply to Kane?

 

So both Kerr and Kane will be out next Saturday for probable our biggest match if the season so far .Could be without Rankin and Rooney as well .

The pens surely you would expect Lyle and Dobbie to score there pens .You can score pens all day long in training but nothing will be the same as a pen shoot out with the pressure it brings  in saying that McFadden could maybe pass on some tips on how to take a pen he scored his easily .

Edited November 13, 2017 by Northfield 53

[Distant Doonhamer]

30 minutes ago, KingfaetheSooth said:

Yet again Naysmith comes out with the line that a penalty shoot-out  is a lottery.  Err no, it's something that can and should be praticed before Cup ties where they can often be the deciding factor.  Change the record FFS. 

Yep if it was some sort of 50:50 lottery our record this season would be somewhat better I`d imagine.

We hit 6 penalties yesterday. 2 good ones, 3 poor ones that missed and another poor one from Fordyce that somehow sneaked in 

[palmy_cammy]

Whilst the "lottery" line is a tired cliche, I have his sympathy in so far as from the managers perspective it is out of his hands.  Lottery is the wrong word, but he has no control or influence over the outcome, unlike in normal play.  He makes his picks and then has to sit back and cross his fingers.

You'd like to think after the League Cup experiences that we perhaps did a bit of extra penalty practice in the lead up to yesterday.  Maybe we did.  Regardless, you'd stake your mortgage on Lyle and Dobbie both scoring, or at the very least one of them.

[Northfield 53]

12 hours ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

Presumably St Johnstone don`t want him cup-tied. 

Same apply to Kane?

 

So both Kerr and Kane will be out next Saturday for probable our biggest match if the season so far .Could be without Rankin and Rooney as well 

Naysmith is always saying we have never had a pen in 43 games .

What about the one Dykes got against Falkirk still I suppose it is only 1 in 43 games 

[Skyline Drifter]

29 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

Yep if it was some sort of 50:50 lottery our record this season would be somewhat better I`d imagine.

We hit 6 penalties yesterday. 2 good ones, 3 poor ones that missed and another poor one from Fordyce that somehow sneaked in 

Our record is 1 win and 3 losses in four shootouts. It's as close to 50/50 as you can be without actually being 50/50 in 4 games. I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment that it's not entirely a lottery, but our record over a four game sample this season neither proves nor disproves it.

For what it's worth, having watched the penalties again this morning before work, I don't think there's a lot wrong with Andy Stirling's penalty. It's just a terrific save. Dobbie obviously misses the target Lyle's in one of those if the keeper goes the right way he saves it ones. So was McFadden's although there may be an argument he did more to actually send the keeper the wrong way. The only one that was truly a terrific unstoppable penalty was Kyle Jacobs one.

[Distant Doonhamer]

1 minute ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Our record is 1 win and 3 losses in four shootouts. It's as close to 50/50 as you can be without actually being 50/50 in 4 games. I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment that it's not entirely a lottery, but our record over a four game sample this season neither proves nor disproves it.

For what it's worth, having watched the penalties again this morning before work, I don't think there's a lot wrong with Andy Stirling's penalty. It's just a terrific save. Dobbie obviously misses the target Lyle's in one of those if the keeper goes the right way he saves it ones. So was McFadden's although there may be an argument he did more to actually send the keeper the wrong way. The only one that was truly a terrific unstoppable penalty was Kyle Jacobs one.

Fair comment and of course absolutely the case.

As you suggest it`s not a lottery though.

Argentina (8 wins from 11) and Germany (5 wins from 7) have 73%  and 71% success rates respectively  in penalty shoot outs in major tournaments.

England have 17% (1 win from 6).

It`s not a lottery.

[Mustafa_sheet]

Fair comment and of course absolutely the case.
As you suggest it`s not a lottery though.
Argentina (8 wins from 11) and Germany (5 wins from 7) have 73%  and 71% success rates respectively  in penalty shoot outs in major tournaments.
England have 17% (1 win from 6).
It`s not a lottery.

In that case we have a team of bottlers and as a nation, the UK on a whole is not as mentally tough as the football world superpowers?

If our main strikers cannot score from 12 yards then we really don’t deserve to win a pen shoot out. I don’t think there is any excuse for not progressing yesterday........The fans backing was terrific, the shoot out was at our end and we did have the experience of 3 cup pen shoot outs all ready this season.
All of which should have held us in good stead to progress into the semis but instead we are left to reflect on what could have been and on a 25% success rate in penalty shoot outs this season against what could be classed as inferior teams to ourselves NOT world beaters!!!

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

Fair comment and of course absolutely the case.

As you suggest it`s not a lottery though.

Argentina (8 wins from 11) and Germany (5 wins from 7) have 73%  and 71% success rates respectively  in penalty shoot outs in major tournaments.

England have 17% (1 win from 6).

It`s not a lottery.

It's not entirely a lottery but it's certainly not always a "better side wins" thing either. There is inevitably an element of luck in a penalty shoot out which involves outfield players and goalkeeper trying to outguess one another. Of course you can practice and goalkeepers both sides have techniques to try to distract the other party and improve their chances but there's inevitably an element of fortune in it.

34 minutes ago, Mustafa_sheet said:

In that case we have a team of bottlers and as a nation, the UK on a whole is not as mentally tough as the football world superpowers?

If our main strikers cannot score from 12 yards then we really don’t deserve to win a pen shoot out. I don’t think there is any excuse for not progressing yesterday........The fans backing was terrific, the shoot out was at our end and we did have the experience of 3 cup pen shoot outs all ready this season.
All of which should have held us in good stead to progress into the semis but instead we are left to reflect on what could have been and on a 25% success rate in penalty shoot outs this season against what could be classed as inferior teams to ourselves NOT world beaters!!!

 

TNS also have experience of penalty shoot outs this season and put Livingston out on one two rounds earlier. There was no segregation yesterday. I don't think the "end" makes much odds anyway but there were TNS fans congregated to one side of that goal and QoS fans to the other.

The East Kilbride shoot out was a disaster for us. We missed two and they hit five perfect penalties. The other three were all tight affairs, effectively going to sudden death, deep into it in the case of the Hamilton one. I think once you get beyond the first five takers in particular it is much more a lottery (and much more in favour of the side who take the first one since we're not using ABBA).

[19QOS19]

I genuinely wasn't shocked Lyle missed he doesn't exactly have the best record. Of the 4 shootouts I know he's been in he's missed 3 times.

I'm positive he missed for Dundee against us. He missed against The Rangers and last night. He scored against Hamilton. 25% hit-rate. I wouldn't have put big money on him to score [emoji14]

[louisxiv]

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Our record is 1 win and 3 losses in four shootouts. It's as close to 50/50 as you can be without actually being 50/50 in 4 games. I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment that it's not entirely a lottery, but our record over a four game sample this season neither proves nor disproves it.

For what it's worth, having watched the penalties again this morning before work, I don't think there's a lot wrong with Andy Stirling's penalty. It's just a terrific save. Dobbie obviously misses the target Lyle's in one of those if the keeper goes the right way he saves it ones. So was McFadden's although there may be an argument he did more to actually send the keeper the wrong way. The only one that was truly a terrific unstoppable penalty was Kyle Jacobs one.

Personally thought Fordyce’s one was perfectly placed. No way their keeper was getting that. 

[Distant Doonhamer]

4 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

It's not entirely a lottery but it's certainly not always a "better side wins" thing either. There is inevitably an element of luck in a penalty shoot out which involves outfield players and goalkeeper trying to outguess one another. Of course you can practice and goalkeepers both sides have techniques to try to distract the other party and improve their chances but there's inevitably an element of fortune in it.

Totally agree it`s not always the better side who wins. Loads of examples of poorer sides who win through. Indeed poorer sides will often keep it tight knowing that a shoot out is their best chance of progress. That doesn`t equate to it being a lottery if they go though though.

The team whose technique and nerve holds generally does win though. Clearly there can always be an element of luck as you suggest.

Fordyce hit a pretty awful penalty yesterday that found its way in. In other circumstances that could easily have tipped it our way.

 

[Distant Doonhamer]

Just now, louisxiv said:

Personally thought Fordyce’s one was perfectly placed. No way their keeper was getting that. 

I thought he mishit it. The keeper was furious that he let it past him. He clearly felt he should have saved it.

[19QOS19]

I thought he mishit it. The keeper was furious that he let it past him. He clearly felt he should have saved it.

If he had saved that I really hope the officials would have given Fordyce a retake. I know gk's step forward but he was taking the piss with that one. He was nearly on the 6 yard line [emoji38]