The Queen of the South thread

[Dougie Mills]

12 minutes ago, A-Mac said:

I am always amazed at the strong home support Dunfermline get and often wonder why that is the case? Considering both have similar populations.

 

I'd imagine Dunfermline pull in a bit of support from other smaller towns in Fife (Fife has a population of 350000 odd versus D&G 150000)

Our crowds are poor though.

[Doonhamer doon south]

I know of a couple of people who haven't attended Palmerston since, and now only attend away games.

I couldn't personally but can understand their reasoning behind it. A truly shameful and disgusting day in the clubs history.

Could those people be persuaded to come back to home games or is their mind set on never again.

It was in my mind a poor decision the vote but enough time has passed since that decision I think where people could move on hopefully. A sort of "forgiven but not forgotten" way of thinking. It's a shame when supporters continue to effectively boycott their presence based on something that happened a few years back.

[Doonhamer doon south]

I am always amazed at the strong home support Dunfermline get and often wonder why that is the case? Considering both have similar populations.
 

I put it down to the closeness of their rivals. And the fact it's a bitter rivalry of sorts but I don't think the same could be said for us.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, A-Mac said:

I am always amazed at the strong home support Dunfermline get and often wonder why that is the case? Considering both have similar populations.

 

I don't think it's especially similar, Dunfermline and it's immediately surrounding environs are much bigger than Dumfries:

List of Scottish Towns & Cities by Population

Appreciate it's Wiki but the source seems reasonable. By that Dunfermline itself has a population of about 150% of ours. Including immediately surrounding areas such as Inverkeithing and Rosyth takes them to about double us at over 70,000 (albeit for some reason our total doesn't appear to include Locharbriggs even in the "Settlements" list). We're much more similar to for instance, but still smaller than, Airdrie and Stirling, towns we are doing considerably better than.

[KingfaetheSooth]

On 18/08/2017 at 11:42, Skyline Drifter said:

We already do this. Naysmith made the point in his interview after the double loan signing from St Johnstone that one of the attractions from Saints point of view was that we send them video analysis of the players every week.

Given that we train in Hamilton though we're not really geographically any more advantaged than any other central belt team in terms of taking English players on loan. They would probably need to live in the central belt anyway. The biggest issue would probably be a requirement to meet their accommodation and travel costs rather than the actual wages. I would presume if an English team was happy to send a player up here to get games they probably wouldn't want much more than a nominal contribution to wages. They'd also want them to play regularly obviously so you'd need a young player from an English club who was definitely better than what you already have but not good enough to be involved regularly for the English side at first team level. Clearly that's feasible (Ayr had a couple of boys from Blackpool a few years ago for instance) but it's not necessarily something easily achieved at a full time side. We do however have a manager with good contacts in England so you never know.

Sending detailed reports and video analysis on loan players is fairly standard at most clubs. Point I was making about Chelsea and the top clubs is that you may need to make numerous weekly presentations in person at their training ground and staff accordingly. Most clubs at Championship level and above in England have dedicated personnel or even a special department for loan signings. 

I mainly agree with the points you make in your second paragraph but would argue that there is plenty of talent at Championship level and above in England that is more than good enough for the Scottish Championship but nowhere near the first team squad at their parent club. The very best of these players are in demand of course. If QOS went down this road, it might pay to rent a house in Dumfries and lodge loan players so they could travel up to training in a group on a daily basis. Not necessarily a cheap or easy option of course. 

AFC Wimbledon have just taken Harry Forrester on loan from Rangers for the rest of the season, so I guess the situation is equally true in reverse. He would have made a good loan signing for any Scottish Championship club, but I imagine he was more keen on moving back down South. 

Interesting discussion on attendances versus population size. FWIW, I think Queens should be looking at pulling more support from the Borders and Cumbria as well as from D&G. I can't imagine we have much support from the likes of Stranraer (though I know a couple of Queens fans from the cleyhole) due to travel time but Dumfries is easier to get to from parts of the Borders and Cumbria. Dare I say that Mileson's Gretna started to tap these areas with their community outreach. You have to target the kids with cheap/free tickets and then hope their parents become fans too.

It would be a much easier sell if Queens were in the top league and had better facilities at Palmerston. You have to invest in infrastructure and staff accordingly and this seems an area where the current Board don't seem to be prepared to invest money. I'm not knocking them btw, as there is no guarantee that such a strategy would actually increase crowd numbers. Ultimately, the thing that increases crowds is good players and winning matches playing attractive football.

[kleinfaethetoon]

Talking to people in town regarding Queens there appears to be general apathy towards the club for various reasons. Some how the club need to try and promote themselves better and encourage people back through the gates.

Regarding Dunfermline, yes they have a bigger catchment area but they also have competition for supporters with Raith Rovers, Cowdenbeath and East Fife nearby along with a few decent junior clubs.

[Monkey Tennis]

3 hours ago, KingfaetheSooth said:

Sending detailed reports and video analysis on loan players is fairly standard at most clubs. Point I was making about Chelsea and the top clubs is that you may need to make numerous weekly presentations in person at their training ground and staff accordingly. Most clubs at Championship level and above in England have dedicated personnel or even a special department for loan signings. 

I mainly agree with the points you make in your second paragraph but would argue that there is plenty of talent at Championship level and above in England that is more than good enough for the Scottish Championship but nowhere near the first team squad at their parent club. The very best of these players are in demand of course. If QOS went down this road, it might pay to rent a house in Dumfries and lodge loan players so they could travel up to training in a group on a daily basis. Not necessarily a cheap or easy option of course. 

AFC Wimbledon have just taken Harry Forrester on loan from Rangers for the rest of the season, so I guess the situation is equally true in reverse. He would have made a good loan signing for any Scottish Championship club, but I imagine he was more keen on moving back down South. 

Interesting discussion on attendances versus population size. FWIW, I think Queens should be looking at pulling more support from the Borders and Cumbria as well as from D&G. I can't imagine we have much support from the likes of Stranraer (though I know a couple of Queens fans from the cleyhole) due to travel time but Dumfries is easier to get to from parts of the Borders and Cumbria. Dare I say that Mileson's Gretna started to tap these areas with their community outreach. You have to target the kids with cheap/free tickets and then hope their parents become fans too.

It would be a much easier sell if Queens were in the top league and had better facilities at Palmerston. You have to invest in infrastructure and staff accordingly and this seems an area where the current Board don't seem to be prepared to invest money. I'm not knocking them btw, as there is no guarantee that such a strategy would actually increase crowd numbers. Ultimately, the thing that increases crowds is good players and winning matches playing attractive football.

Queens offer ridiculously cheap season tickets to kids and they also dish out loads of free tickets to Primary schools.  I'm not convinced they could do a lot more in that regard.

[Monkey Tennis]

5 hours ago, Rjc-1988 said:

Sincerely hope that we can build on our good start but it would take a 5/6 game winning run to nudge many of the disinterested hordes towards Palmerston and even that might not be enough.
 

As Flash has pointed out, even a great winning run early last season, did not see our crowds getting much bigger.

[Homer Thompson]

3 hours ago, kleinfaethetoon said:

Talking to people in town regarding Queens there appears to be general apathy towards the club for various reasons. Some how the club need to try and promote themselves better and encourage people back through the gates.

Regarding Dunfermline, yes they have a bigger catchment area but they also have competition for supporters with Raith Rovers, Cowdenbeath and East Fife nearby along with a few decent junior clubs.

3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

As Flash has pointed out, even a great winning run early last season, did not see our crowds getting much bigger.

I guess the question, then, is what can the club do? 

What kind of things could be done to promote the club better?

 

[Monkey Tennis]

33 minutes ago, Mr X said:

I guess the question, then, is what can the club do? 

What kind of things could be done to promote the club better?

 

Since the sign got updated, I'm all out of ideas.

I genuinely am.  Given what we can afford to spend on staff and marketing, I don't know what else can be done.  Even if we could spend more on such things, I'm not convinced it would make a big difference.

Latterly, we weren't even getting particularly big numbers of Queens fans coming for the games against the likes of Rangers and Hibs.

As said, crowds didn't soar, even during our cracking start last season.  Prices have been frozen for ages as well, so that's not an obvious area to address either.

I daresay that certain things could be done, but I don't know what they are, or see that they'd necessarily be that successful.

[Rjc-1988]

I guess the question, then, is what can the club do? 
What kind of things could be done to promote the club better?
 

Personally I think that a decent amount of potential supporters might return if they genuinely believed that we are seriously trying to get promotion this season.Some need to feel that they are on a journey!

It is understandable for Manager and Board to play down the expectations because they can look very silly if big objectives are set and we singularly fail to deliver. That said, the opposite is also true where many QOS supporters still think that "we don't want promotion".

I can't believe for a minute that we wouldn't want to go up :-

- ave home crowds of say 3500 v 1500 means a revenue increase of c.600k per annum
- bigger slice of tv money
- bigger share of league place prize revenue
- better chance to progress in cups
- even allowing for much bigger wage bill it has to be a no brainer

As I say I think we have to change the perception that we are a mid table Champ team at best. It is entirely possible to outperform our predicted status - Hamilton & St Johnstone are currently doing that in spades. Saints are actually a great example of that - very similar size club to us for many years, farming community, a town that is not a football hotbed and a core support that would be similar to ours if they were a mid table Championship side.

I would much rather we heard ambitious statements coming out of Palmerston that galvanises the support even if it means risking the ridicule of some if we then fail to perform. Incidentally, I am not suggesting the Ally McLeod 1978 approach but something that leaves us in no doubt that we are sensibly ambitious and want to attain Premier status.

[Homer Thompson]

39 minutes ago, Rjc-1988 said:

Personally I think that a decent amount of potential supporters might return if they genuinely believed that we are seriously trying to get promotion this season.Some need to feel that they are on a journey!

It is understandable for Manager and Board to play down the expectations because they can look very silly if big objectives are set and we singularly fail to deliver. That said, the opposite is also true where many QOS supporters still think that "we don't want promotion".

I can't believe for a minute that we wouldn't want to go up :-

- ave home crowds of say 3500 v 1500 means a revenue increase of c.600k per annum
- bigger slice of tv money
- bigger share of league place prize revenue
- better chance to progress in cups
- even allowing for much bigger wage bill it has to be a no brainer

As I say I think we have to change the perception that we are a mid table Champ team at best. It is entirely possible to outperform our predicted status - Hamilton & St Johnstone are currently doing that in spades. Saints are actually a great example of that - very similar size club to us for many years, farming community, a town that is not a football hotbed and a core support that would be similar to ours if they were a mid table Championship side.

I would much rather we heard ambitious statements coming out of Palmerston that galvanises the support even if it means risking the ridicule of some if we then fail to perform. Incidentally, I am not suggesting the Ally McLeod 1978 approach but something that leaves us in no doubt that we are sensibly ambitious and want to attain Premier status.

I dont disagree with your general point but I would question how the club actually achieves that. Surely, a few comments from the board or manager about winning the league arent going to make any difference?

Even bringing Dobbie back to the club didnt increase gates

[NorthSouth]

First kids clubs of the season today at Palmerston, good to see them back! I'd imagine 30 or so kids, fans of the future, fantastic, great chance to sell some strips etc.... SHOP CLOSED. .... deary me Queens.

 

[Homer Thompson]

1 hour ago, NorthSouth said:

First kids clubs of the season today at Palmerston, good to see them back! I'd imagine 30 or so kids, fans of the future, fantastic, great chance to sell some strips etc.... SHOP CLOSED. .... deary me Queens.

 

Why not volunteer to man it for a couple of hours each week?

[NorthSouth]

Sadly I work office hours so that wouldn't work. I would have thought that queens could staff it between office staff and under 20's though? No??

[Doonhamer doon south]

We all want the club to succeed on and off the pitch so if you think you have an idea no matter how random suggest it to the club. Yours might be a revolutionary idea that might help make more money for the club or help attract fans young and old. I have privately sent some of my own in and even if they are dismissed at the first glance I not bothered because I want to help in some way. I know people do make suggestions but this is aimed at the quiet fans who read but don't post on here or other social media platforms.

[Homer Thompson]

24 minutes ago, NorthSouth said:

Sadly I work office hours so that wouldn't work. I would have thought that queens could staff it between office staff and under 20's though? No??

The office staff finish at 4 and thats not really what the U20s are there for, is it?

I can see opening it for the first night would have been good but Im not sure it being open every night there is something on at the arena would actually be worth it.

[NorthSouth]

Maybe a chance to top up the 20's wages or maybe a case of the office staff starting an hour later on a Wed to be there when there is a rise in foot fall. Was same on a sat for the Stenhousemuir game at start of season, potentially some of your most loyal fans (customers) and the shop was again closed. Doesn't make sense to me.

[Doonhamer doon south]

The office staff finish at 4 and thats not really what the U20s are there for, is it?
I can see opening it for the first night would have been good but Im not sure it being open every night there is something on at the arena would actually be worth it.

Does the club rely on volunteers at all?

[Homer Thompson]

1 minute ago, Doonhamer doon south said:

Does the club rely on volunteers at all?

At all?? Pretty much entirely!