The Queen of the South thread

[TeeMan]

21 minutes ago, Sloop John B said:

The football in the second half of fowler is the same as it is now. One paced, not especially wide , full backs who can't defend and not a mobile central midfield player in sight. He spent his second season moaning about losing all his good players when he signed over the hill dross like Ryan Conroy and Paul Heffernan. Let's not romanticise the difficult second  season.

He lost 4 players up to the SPL and tried to replace them from the bargain basement bin taking punts on players like Marshall, Brownlie, Tapping and Hilson. He needed another summer to discard the gambles that failed and bring in another round of signings but we decided to punt him and replace him with his assistant.

If we want to get rid of Naysmith now how can we trust the board to replace him? I'd like to see this list of managers who would make the difference. We need some sort of continuity with a manager given a couple of summers to bring together a team and introduce some of our youngsters.

[Priti priti priti Patel]

I think it is clear to anyone who is watching that Naysmith is horrifically negative. This is something I first noticed after we won away to Ayr United and Dobbie scored a worldie. Naysmith started his post-match comments on Dobbie by saying "Aye you mibbe get annoyed with him cus he does miss a lot of chances". About our best player who had just scored two goals in an away victory over (some would say) a rival team?? Everything he says is negative. His comments halfway through the summer about we may struggle to sign who we need and have to make through. Young Rooney who has just joined and made a silly mistake to give away the pen v Stenhousemuir. How does Naysmith react in the dugout in front of a bunch of other youngsters? With compsure? With guidance? No...he cannae control himself and just starts balling "Whits he dooooin??" to no-one in particular. Everything about him is negative.

[Priti priti priti Patel]

3 minutes ago, TeeMan said:

He lost 4 players up to the SPL and tried to replace them from the bargain basement bin taking punts on players like Marshall, Brownlie, Tapping and Hilson. He needed another summer to discard the gambles that failed and bring in another round of signings but we decided to punt him and replace him with his assistant.

If we want to get rid of Naysmith now how can we trust the board to replace him? I'd like to see this list of managers who would make the difference. We need some sort of continuity with a manager given a couple of summers to bring together a team and introduce some of our youngsters.

I agree with that.

[Tam]

I think getting rid of both Dowie and Higgins may prove to have been "a brave decision" ( in the Yes, Minister sense of the phrase).

Rooney's barge apart, the defence was fine last Saturday.  Obviously it will need to be weighed in the balance v Championship opponents though.

[Homer Thompson]

15 minutes ago, Nithsdale Wanderer said:

Try reading my post properly.

I acknowledged there were problems before he came in.

My point was,  a better Manager than Naysmith would have worked to turn things around rather than take the easy way out and discard experienced professionals.

Not sure what kind of scrutiny you mean but Dowie, Higgins and Robinson in particular provide the history and, along with all the others released add up to wholesale changes in my book.

Choose any post-match interview you like and that will stop you being puzzled any longer !

I did read your post properly, then I replied. Thats kind of how it works.

The only players that left in January were Millar and Anderson plus Hamill was dropped. There was no particular outcry at the time about any of those decisions. In particular, the first two were replaced by Thomson and Thomas.

I mean scrutiny as in examining the actual facts. You've quoted three players who have some kind of history at the club - one of which pretty much no one has had any issue with leaving. Lyle and Carmichael remain, so the idea of Naysmith clearing out anyone with any kind of history doesnt stand up to scrutiny. In terms of "experienced professionals" the only other player who left under that category was Hilson, while Jacobs, Marshall, Brownlie and Tapping all stayed.

So, how many more players has Naysmith got rid of this season in his "wholesale changes" compared to the last few summers?

[kirkyblue2]

I've been critical of managers in the past but I've never seen this amount of criticism after only 2 games.

[Homer Thompson]

12 minutes ago, Margaret Thatcher said:

I think it is clear to anyone who is watching that Naysmith is horrifically negative. This is something I first noticed after we won away to Ayr United and Dobbie scored a worldie. Naysmith started his post-match comments on Dobbie by saying "Aye you mibbe get annoyed with him cus he does miss a lot of chances". About our best player who had just scored two goals in an away victory over (some would say) a rival team?? Everything he says is negative. His comments halfway through the summer about we may struggle to sign who we need and have to make through. Young Rooney who has just joined and made a silly mistake to give away the pen v Stenhousemuir. How does Naysmith react in the dugout in front of a bunch of other youngsters? With compsure? With guidance? No...he cannae control himself and just starts balling "Whits he dooooin??" to no-one in particular. Everything about him is negative.

 

35 minutes ago, Nithsdale Wanderer said:

 

Choose any post-match interview you like and that will stop you being puzzled any longer !

I just listened to the Ayr one, as Margaret suggested. 

I see whats going on now

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, palmy_cammy said:

Any conversation about the style of play seems to use the Allan Johnston side that played in the seaside league against part-timers as some sort of yardstick.  It really isn't a fair comparison.  We'll never know how he would have had us perform at this level because he buggered off to be a complete failure at Kilmarnock.  Given what McIntrye achieved with that group of players, and given what AJ managed with Dunfermline last season I think it's fair to assume he would have had us round about where we ended up anyway.

All managers when they come in talk about playing football the right way, and putting their stamp on things but it is just buzzwords and management mumbo jumbo.  The style of play comes down to the abilities of the players more than anything.

I think some people need to take a reality check and have a think about where our standing in the game is and perhaps lower expectations a touch.

That's not a comparison I'm particularly making, to be honest.  And that's for the reasons you suggest -  We played poorer opposition then and we had better players then.

I agree that managers in particular, and people in general, talk a great deal of rubbish about playing 'the right way'.  How we play is indeed dictated largely by how good our players are.  And currently, that's dictated (Dobbie apart) by an appropriately tight budget.

Having conceded all of the above though, I still think that we're particularly unattractive at the moment.  We can all live with that if we're effective.  If we're not though, it's going to be cited and it's going to be used as evidence of the manager's negative persona.

[TeeMan]

24 minutes ago, kirkyblue2 said:

I've been critical of managers in the past but I've never seen this amount of criticism after only 2 games.

You're mellowing! 

[Dumfries Boy(new acc)]

Oh it's good to have the football back 

[BigRubberFist]

Normally I'd say that this amount of criticism of the manager/BoD (take your pick as to who's most to blame for the current sh!tstorm) is totally unwarranted at this stage of the season, but the simple fact is that it is merely a continuation - perhaps even a deepening - of many of the issues that have roots in last year's campaign.

Until they are addressed I'm afraid this will continue to be a very unhappy camp.

[palmy_cammy]

9 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That's not a comparison I'm particularly making, to be honest.  And that's for the reasons you suggest -  We played poorer opposition then and we had better players then.

I agree that managers in particular, and people in general, talk a great deal of rubbish about playing 'the right way'.  How we play is indeed dictated largely by how good our players are.  And currently, that's dictated (Dobbie apart) by an appropriately tight budget.

Having conceded all of the above though, I still think that we're particularly unattractive at the moment.  We can all live with that if we're effective.  If we're not though, it's going to be cited and it's going to be used as evidence of the manager's negative persona.

Your last paragraph is fair enough.  Making judgements on the style of play after 2 games seems a bit premature when the squad hasn't been fully assembled though.

The biggest criticism of last season was our lack of defensive solidity, not that we didn't play tiki-taka football.  It's early days, and we're yet to play anyone of note but that aspect does look to have been improved.  You could argue that prioritising our weakest area is a sign of good management.  Most successful teams are built on a solid defence, perhaps once that's in place he'll then look to improve our attacking fortunes?

We're very clearly still a work in progress.  It's only mid-July and the league season is a few weeks away yet.  I'm going to resist making too many rash judgements until then.

[Broony88]

1 hour ago, Hawk said:

Not sure what's more depressing, reading this thread or the thought of the season ahead?

It's close but  the season ahead.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Broony88

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, palmy_cammy said:

Your last paragraph is fair enough.  Making judgements on the style of play after 2 games seems a bit premature when the squad hasn't been fully assembled though.

The biggest criticism of last season was our lack of defensive solidity, not that we didn't play tiki-taka football.  It's early days, and we're yet to play anyone of note but that aspect does look to have been improved.  You could argue that prioritising our weakest area is a sign of good management.  Most successful teams are built on a solid defence, perhaps once that's in place he'll then look to improve our attacking fortunes?

We're very clearly still a work in progress.  It's only mid-July and the league season is a few weeks away yet.  I'm going to resist making too many rash judgements until then.

I'm not really on Naysmith's back at all yet.  Give me time for Christ's sake.  

I was simply trying to answer Mr X's question about why there's a perception that Naysmith is negative.  If the defence truly has been tightened up, that's great, but we can't really yet tell whether or not that's the case.   The jury on him is very much out and probably needs to remain so for a good while yet.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Monkey Tennis

[palmy_cammy]

I'm not really on Naysmith's back at all yet.  Give me time for Christ's sake.  
I was simply trying to answer Mr X's question about why there's a perception that Naysmith is negative.  If the defence truly has been tightened up, that's great, but we can't really yet tell whether or not that's the case.   The jury on him is very much out and probably needs to remain so for a good while yet.

Yeah sorry, I know I quoted you but I was really responding to some of the over-the-top nonsense of the past few days, than you directly. I think our thoughts on the current situation are fairly similar.

I completely agree the jury is out. For some however the jury has already made their mind up on both Naysmith and the new signings after two games, which is frankly ridiculous.

[Fae_the_'briggs]

TBF I think most of Naysmith's doubters are not basing their opinions on just two games this season but carrying it over from last season. I agree that criticism of the new recruits after just two games is a bit premature and unfair. With a new keeper and two new defenders installed we have conceded one goal, from a penalty, in regulation time over those two games, and restricted the opposition to very few openings. Even taking into account the level of opposition we faced, that's not too bad a start. Time will tell if they are good enough when we face higher ranked opposition though.

[Priti priti priti Patel]

To be fair to Naysmith, he was a weird appointment, second bottom in League One, and has always had to earn his right to be here in some supporters eyes, including mine. That informs a lot of the negativity. I still feel negative but honestly this board is only a joy to read when people are smiling so finger's crossed it all looks up soon.

[NM_1919]

Depressing that Dumbarton have done a lot more damage in transfer market than us, and still looking to add another.

[Homer Thompson]

Depressing that Dumbarton have done a lot more damage in transfer market than us, and still looking to add another.

They did have almost an entire squad to replace. Can't say they've signed anyone I was particularly disappointed in missing out on, maybe Barr if he's stays fit.

 

[NM_1919]

They did have almost an entire squad to replace. Can't say they've signed anyone I was particularly disappointed in missing out on, maybe Barr if he's stays fit.
 

We had a fair few to replace also, wasn't really the personnel I was meaning more the numbers...