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The Queen of the South thread


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1 hour ago, Mr X said:


No one is saying that. The point is that the idea that the tactic started with naysmith is wrong.

So, both of these posts are saying Naysmith carried on the tactic but didn't start it? They're not suggesting he didn't adopt it at all? Really?

6 hours ago, Mr X said:

This. The long ball to the wide men was very much part of Skeltons tactics, I wouldnt be surprised if Anderson was brought in almost especially for that role. As you say, he also played Dykes in that role.

Naysmith very rarely used tall players out wide. In his time, he's brought in Thomas and Stirling, resigned Carmichael and played Connor Murray in wide areas. None of who fit this high ball out wide tactic

 

4 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

There's no doubt the high ball out wide to Dykes and Anderson from goal kicks was a deliberate tactic under Skelton which initially worked very well but got less and less effective as time passed and opponents worked out how to combat it.

Indeed. And it was just as ineffective during the period Naysmith employed it, which was much, much longer.

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Indeed. And it was just as ineffective during the period Naysmith employed it, which was much, much longer.

No, I certainly wasn't suggesting that we stopped kicking the ball long from goal kicks. But the implication lately is that this was a tactic brought in by Naysmith, it wasn't. The other discussion was around wide target men. Its pretty clear that Skelton preferred them, presumably to intentionally play long balls to them more often than not. It's just as clear that Naysmith doesn't prefer wide target men and prefers more conventional wingers.

I think we're really having two different discussion.
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1 hour ago, Flash said:

So, both of these posts are saying Naysmith carried on the tactic but didn't start it? They're not suggesting he didn't adopt it at all? Really?

 

Indeed. And it was just as ineffective during the period Naysmith employed it, which was much, much longer.

I think you are reading things into my post that simply arent there. I made no comment on Naysmith's tactics at all. I just said the ball from keeper to a tall wide man was absolutely a deliberate tactic Skelton introduced and Anderson was recruited with that in mind. I was addressing the implication it was something Naysmith introduced, which it plainly wasnt.

We certainly continued to do it to a slightly lesser extent under Naysmith. I never suggested otherwise.

Edited to add: I am nitpicking a bit but Naysmith was in charge for pretty much exactly 5 months of last season. Skelton was in charge for about 3 & a half months. It was longer, it wasnt really "much, much longer".

Edited by Skyline Drifter
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6 hours ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

I'm not saying Dykes was played as a winger in the same way Anderson, Carmichael or Thomas were, apologies for any confusion, what I am getting at is that, even when playing as a strikers alongside Dobbie it was Dykes' as a tall player or Lyle being good in the air.  job to go out wide at goal-kicks/ free-kicks from deep, to win headers to flick down for Dobbie or midfielders . My beef is the number of times this completely failed. There is nothing basically wrong with this tactic, every club does it, you see all the outfield players moving to one side of the park like sheep for the ball being punted forward. It's the number of times we manage to make a pigs ear out of it that grates with me. If we were getting a reasonable success rate it would be acceptable but it was nowhere near reasonable. I believe that is why Robinson has had a greater degree of criticism this season, maybe a bit OTT, his kick-outs have mostly been just that, kick-outs clear out of the park. 

What an absolute load of b@llocks

He's probably kicked the ball out of play 10 times this season out of probably 20 goal kicks a game .

It's amazing how people jump on the  bandwagon.

How many miss placed free kicks has been taken by outfield players , his many great chances have been missed by outfield players yet Robinson's goal kicks and the teams biggest problems

Get a life

 

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How many miss placed free kicks has been taken by outfield players , his many great chances have been missed by outfield players...
 



This is true. I blame Gavin Skelton and Gary Naysmith!! :angry:
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6 hours ago, kirkyblue2 said:

Never mind how many times the clown kicked the ball out I would disown him after that last fucking goal he let in.

I agree , any player that trips over in a game should never play football again.

Also any brainless supporters should be barred 

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6 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

 

 


This is true. I blame Gavin Skelton and Gary Naysmith!! :angry:

 

 

I am talking about about criticism from the fans not blaming the manager, numpty dumpty.

Edited by Besty
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15 hours ago, palmy_cammy said:

"Naysmith's long ball tactics" is going to become one of these myths that if enough people say it often enough it will become accepted as fact.

Do you go to the games?

Shouldn't need convincing it's there to be see.

Same ball same place every goal kick, 

Damage limitation it's called, as not once have we scored from it.

Get the ball into a  safe area and we might give as throw in away. 

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18 hours ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

We had a tremendous start to the season, mainly I would say because we had a fairly settled team which gelled quickly and our potentially strongest opponents, bar probably Hibs. were all a bit slow out of the blocks. Dobbie coming in added a real feelgood factor about the Club. When injuries started to affect us, Hamill, Marshall, Hilson, Tapping for example, it probably upset the rhythm as central defenders were moved to cover defensive positions and the midfield options at the time were limited. The Manager left, the spell under the Interim Manager was a disaster and confidence plummeted. It may be my memory playing tricks but I felt under Skelton we were trying to play a more passing game from the back rather than balls up to a wide target man which seemed to become the preferred tactic. Anderson has come in for a bit of stick in a few posts but early in the season he, and other wide men were getting the ball at feet and taking men on and getting crosses in reasonably successfully. He then became a wide target man which resulted in him picking up several niggly injuries which undoubtedly led to his loss of form and ultimate departure. Danny Carmichael was also rushed back too quickly to make any significant impact. It's no surprise that fans became frustrated when we went from being a team hard to beat to a team which couldn't buy a win. Something went wrong behind the scenes around the time of Skelton's departure and the Board are culpable for taking too long to find a permanent replacement after the the Interim Manager stated quite clearly he wasn't interested in the job. Even when Naysmith came in he took several games to start and turn things round. Leaving aside the  good start we had a lot of the football we have watched has been terrible and it's not surprising that the Management, and ultimately players, get stick when they persist in employing tactics that a lot of fans clearly think don't work. We would all like to think we would back the players without question but unfortunately frustration will usually win out over blind loyalty. 

That sums up the season perfectly .

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7 hours ago, die hard doonhamer said:


I saw you kick the ball out of play at least that amount of times, Lee, and I only got to 7 or 8 games!

Didn't see me kick the ball out buddy

If you've only been to 7 or 8 games you shouldn't even be on here.

Incidently try it yourself, I know you aren't a £300 to  £500 a week footballer (yes that's all they will be getting )but try kicking a ball 60 metres onto the same players head 20 or so consecutive times.

Bearing in mind hes standing on the touchline.

Then comment.

The best goalkeeper in the world couldn't do it.

Edited by Besty
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Guest Flash
10 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I think you are reading things into my post that simply arent there. I made no comment on Naysmith's tactics at all. I just said the ball from keeper to a tall wide man was absolutely a deliberate tactic Skelton introduced and Anderson was recruited with that in mind. I was addressing the implication it was something Naysmith introduced, which it plainly wasnt.

We certainly continued to do it to a slightly lesser extent under Naysmith. I never suggested otherwise.

Edited to add: I am nitpicking a bit but Naysmith was in charge for pretty much exactly 5 months of last season. Skelton was in charge for about 3 & a half months. It was longer, it wasnt really "much, much longer".

Yes and you also said that it became pretty much ineffective when Skelton did it. So, the implication was that a competent manager wouldn't continue to employ it as much when it wasn't working.

My reference to much, much longer was in terms of the league games they each had. I think Naysmith was in charge for almost twice as many as Skelton. In any event, if it wasn't much, much longer, maybe it just seemed like it.

Edited by Flash
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Didn't see me kick the ball out buddy
If you've only been to 7 or 8 games you shouldn't even be on here.
Incidently try it yourself, I know you aren't a £300 to  £500 a week footballer (yes that's all they will be getting )but try kicking a ball 60 metres onto the same players head 20 or so consecutive times.
Bearing in mind hes standing on the touchline.
Then comment.
The best goalkeeper in the world couldn't do it.

Surely with all that practice they'd be amazing at it. Other keepers do seem to manage. I can think of a couple more opposition keepers who kicked the ball straight out but not many. For all the criticism the tactic deserves its hardly unique to Skelton or Naysmith, you see it at almost every level of the game. Even the very top teams who consistently play put from the back use a "long" ball wide to the full back as their out ball.
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26 minutes ago, Northfield 53 said:

How does John Rankin  get the time to coach Hearts under 17 team.

Does he not train full time with us.

 

 

 

Training is only for 3 hours 4 days a week leaving plenty of time during the day and at night to train Hearts 17's. As well as doing his pfa job.

Edited by SUPERSOUTH
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2 hours ago, Mr X said:


Surely with all that practice they'd be amazing at it. Other keepers do seem to manage. I can think of a couple more opposition keepers who kicked the ball straight out but not many. For all the criticism the tactic deserves its hardly unique to Skelton or Naysmith, you see it at almost every level of the game. Even the very top teams who consistently play put from the back use a "long" ball wide to the full back as their out ball.

Edited by Besty
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