Doctor Who

[GordonD]

23 minutes ago, Sir Peh McBridie said:

Anyone remember that comic relief episode when the Doctor changing sex was seen as the big joke.

Is that now considered the the proof they can change sex? 

No, the Master/Missy is.

[scottsdad]

My son and I have watched this for years. I never liked the old episodes - being brought up in the 80s, Doctor Who was basically a few people in a field hiding from badly made monsters. But I've enjoyed the reboot and so has the boy.

I told him on Sunday that the new Doctor was a woman.  His reaction was a shrug of the shoulder and a look that said "is this somehow news?". Pretty proud of the wee man for that.

I'm looking forward to it. It's a show that thrives on change - though many on social media seem to just want to watch old Tom Baker repeats

[DA Baracus]

Have a wee look at this article;

http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/columnists/15414330.Mark_Smith__Casting_a_woman_as_the_Doctor_isn_t_clever__it_s_sad_and_predictable/

The comments are tremendous

[Raidernation]

On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 17:49, King Kebab said:

 

 

Peri was great!!!



I'm pretty sure, The Doctor becoming a woman is going to be linked to that weird wee touch of his hand that Missy gave him in the last episode!!!

 

Aye she had nice busty-substances, but she couldn't act and was irritating as f**k when I watched her episodes recently

[RandomGuy.]

Have a wee look at this article;
http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/columnists/15414330.Mark_Smith__Casting_a_woman_as_the_Doctor_isn_t_clever__it_s_sad_and_predictable/
The comments are tremendous

I find the people on both sides of the argument come across as utter c***s, tbh.

[smpar]

Genuine question here..
I've never watched Doctor Who as I think the vast majority of things sci-fi related are utter shite, however I am a bit confused as to how the persona has changed from male to female. As far as I'm aware (and I might be completely wrong here), Doctor Who is similar to James Bond, i.e. it's the same 'person' for the entire series, they just have to change the actor every now and then?

[GordonD]

1 minute ago, smpar said:

Genuine question here..
I've never watched Doctor Who as I think the vast majority of things sci-fi related are utter shite, however I am a bit confused as to how the persona has changed from male to female. As far as I'm aware (and I might be completely wrong here), Doctor Who is similar to James Bond, i.e. it's the same 'person' for the entire series, they just have to change the actor every now and then?

He 'regenerates' which means his body changes, which is how they explain it's a new actor (which James Bond never did; they just ignored it and the audience had to pretend not to notice). One of the bad guys who's from the same species changed to a woman but they never really explained how; it was just given as a fact that it had happened, so the Doctor now becoming a woman isn't completely new.

[smpar]

He 'regenerates' which means his body changes, which is how they explain it's a new actor (which James Bond never did; they just ignored it and the audience had to pretend not to notice). One of the bad guys who's from the same species changed to a woman but they never really explained how; it was just given as a fact that it had happened, so the Doctor now becoming a woman isn't completely new.

In that case, it's actually far more believable than the likes of James Bond. Regarding Bond, I've always been slightly bugged by how there's no attempt to make them look even slightly similar, and like you say, the audience is just forced to pretend it's the exact same person.

 

Thanks for clearing up [emoji4]

[diamond_for_life]

People who argue either side of the coin for me are as bad as each other. 

The one side say oh it shouldn't be a women it should be a man can't have a women and blah blah blah. Then the other side say pish like oh Doctor Who is finally getting with the times and stepping out of the dark ages. Its all utter bollox. 

The show needs to progress and has been pretty stagnant for a while. The next doctor should be a  person thats able to put the show in a good direction and do what is required from them by the writers story arc. Not because they are a women or a man. If Whittaker isn't able to do that it's because she isn't a good fit for the role of the doctor in that story arc not becuase of her fucking gender. Lets be honest we all agree Capaldi is a great man to be a doctor but the show has been overall pish for years. He was wasted and was the wrong man for that style of writing. 

I hated Bill at the start purely becuase she wasn't Clara Oswald. The episode of her running the diner was touching as f**k and I loved it. Would have loved to have seen a reunion. I didn't want a change and instantly took a dislike to Bill. However after the season ended other than the whole "Im a lesbian every 10 minutes" I thought she did a good Job. Same with Whittaker. I wanted Capaldi to reach his potential and didn't really want a change but as soon as it was announced it was his last year I thought f**k it someone deserves a chance to improve it. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by diamond_for_life

[EdgarusQPFC]

On 7/18/2017 at 09:31, Sir Peh McBridie said:

If it is just a case of  "Oh I'm a woman now....meh whatever." then great but part of me doubts that's how they'll play it.

Exactly, if they try to turn it into a "im a woman now hear me roar" shite they will totally ruin it, but if they play it off as "Oh im a woman now... well at least im not ginger" then that will be the Doctor

[RandomGuy.]

In that case, it's actually far more believable than the likes of James Bond. Regarding Bond, I've always been slightly bugged by how there's no attempt to make them look even slightly similar, and like you say, the audience is just forced to pretend it's the exact same person.
 
Thanks for clearing up [emoji4]

James Bond isn't meant to be the same person. "007/James Bond" is just the name used by whichever agent is assigned it..

[RandomGuy.]

Exactly, if they try to turn it into a "im a woman now hear me roar" shite they will totally ruin it, but if they play it off as "Oh im a woman now... well at least im not ginger" then that will be the Doctor

If she doesn't grab her tits straight after regeneration then I'm out

[smpar]

James Bond isn't meant to be the same person. "007/James Bond" is just the name used by whichever agent is assigned it..

Oh.

[GordonD]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

James Bond isn't meant to be the same person. "007/James Bond" is just the name used by whichever agent is assigned it..

 

That theory has been advanced but it doesn't work. Why would the Roger Moore Bond visit the grave of the woman who was married to the George Lazenby one?

[Gaz]

55 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

James Bond isn't meant to be the same person. "007/James Bond" is just the name used by whichever agent is assigned it..

 

The "James Bond as a codename" theory has been debunked, hasn't it?

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

That theory has been advanced but it doesn't work. Why would the Roger Moore Bond visit the grave of the woman who was married to the George Lazenby one?

Maybe she was getting shagged rotten by the whole of MI6.

[GordonD]

44 minutes ago, Zen Archer said:

Maybe she was getting shagged rotten by the whole of MI6.

Well, it was Diana Rigg...

[BigTidy]

On 18/07/2017 at 09:29, Jaggy Snake said:

I think the main problem is there doesn’t seem to be a reason within the program to change to a woman.

What was the reason, within the program, that the Doctor always changed into a man?

 

Jodie Whittaker is a good actor. Whether she's a success or not is all going to come down to the writing.

[renton]

48 minutes ago, BigTidy said:

What was the reason, within the program, that the Doctor always changed into a man?

 

Jodie Whittaker is a good actor. Whether she's a success or not is all going to come down to the writing.

I suppose, back in the start in 1963 it wasn't set in stone what regeneration was, indeed, it wasn't until Pertwee left that the term was explicitly used. In the beginning it was something more akin to 'renewal' - more a reversing of aging  of the threadbare first doctor into the second, than the random body change it became later. Troughton's change to Pertwee was called a 'change of appearance' without really referencing the implicit mental changes the character must go through as one actor and writer's interpretation gives way to another's. So we're into the mid 70s before we actually start seeing more of the Timelord society put into perspective. Actually, then would've been a good time to do it, the Doctor, at the time was played very asexual, or at least, above human concepts of gender, loved his line in City of Death: "Your a beautiful woman, probably".

So really, in the original show, back in times when genre writers didn't do series bibles, canon or continuity on a show that managed 26 years it's simply a case of a concept changing from one thing (rejuvenation) as a device required to write out an ailing actor, to another (complete metamorphosis) without ever really embracing the latter concept's implications. It just never occurred to them. And the longer it went, then there was more inertia against it.

It's always been a bit of a pull on Doctor Who to present the main character as alien, but also recognizably human. It's interesting in other future set shows - like Star Trek - that humans in the 24th century are no different from 20th C humans, in terms of physiology and morality, when indeed you wouldn't ever imagine us being so static. The reason being is that, incorporating any kind of evolved humanity onto these shows, whether it was the incorporation of cybernetic components, or psi powers, or being faster rand stronger generally, would serve to sever the audience link to the characters. The Doctor is alien, but in so many ways, also very, very human. Much more so in the new show. They kinda got away with regeneration because, there is, or was, quite a narrow interpretation of the character, and until Davidson in 1982, a narrow(ish) age range of actors to choose for the role. In that respect it's easier to look at the Doctor as the same person even with a different actor. At 29, Davidson was quite a big departure for the show, but again, like Tennent and Smith later - it worked because Davidson played him as much older than he himself was. The big thing here being the suspense of audience disbelief that someone who looks and sounds different, and, depending on the writing, even have a bit of a different personality, is the same person. It's a fragile thread that runs through the character development.

Whittaker is a break from that. She shouldn't and won't play it as the previously recognizably male doctor now in female form. She, and the writers, will have to find the distillation of the Doctor's character beyond the surface beats that the other actors have used previously. I reckon she'll be fine, but it's worth noting the low level disquiet that went with Capaldi's casting: What once would've been the quintessential actor to play the doctor was met with uncertainty because  the production team thought people might struggle to identify with the 55 year old Capaldi vs. the two younger, swashbuckling men who preceded him. You can see that anxiety in Capaldi's first episode, where, unlike all the others - at least in the new show, he had to share screentime with his predecessor, who's phone call to Clara was such an obvious thing for the audience: HE'S STILL THE SAME GUY being the slightly angsty, screamed message.

As long as she can monologue she'll be fine, that's basically the doctor's job (and no one can do a big set piece speech like Peter Capaldi). After a couple of episodes it'll not even really be an issue. For me, it's more the fact that Chibnall's episodes have been interminably dull and plodding. The writing could well be the major issue here.

Edited July 20, 2017 by renton

[pandarilla]

I live pie and bovril for this kind of post.

 

A respectful nod to geekdom, sir. Well played.