Doctor Who

[dogmc]

I enjoyed that have watched it twice twice now,
Now for wild speculation my thinking is that the doctor. Will take cyber bill and rebuild her/it as nando 
And bill is the new doctor, I am sure moffat has said before he wanted more Diversity in the show. He would get the credit for doing it and as he is pissing off would not have to deal with any fallout from fans.
Then the next doctor will be traveling with her self  bill doctor and cyberbill modefied into nando. This means the Christmas special will be
A double bill

Thought it was announced pearl mackie was binned at end of this series. Fairly sure it's also been said the regeneration won't happen til the Xmas episode.

[KnightswoodBear]

11 minutes ago, killienick said:

My horrible thought is that the Doctor has engineered a computer programme a la the Extremis episode 3 to test Missy and this is all just a trick.

I really, really hope I'm wrong.

Urgh, that would be just awful.

[Bully Wee Villa]

That would be megashite.

[killienick]

It would. It would also be typical Moffat as people just aren't allowed to die any more in Who.

[killienick]

BTW I meant to say 3 parter and not episode 3.

[renton]

3 hours ago, Fide said:

Perhaps it was, I could be wrong.  The point is, that exact schtick has been done before.

As the above posts show, I clearly am in the minority who thought it was shite.  I suppose growing up with Doctor Who as my favourite show in the 80s means that the modern Who can never reach my lofty expectations, who knows, if you'll pardon the pun.  And I suppose there will be some people who match that description who also thoroughly enjoyed Saturday's episode, so maybe I'm just wrong.

Still thought it was, in the main, shite.

I thought the Cybermen were fantastic. They've been needing that kind of soft-reboot for a while now, to put the man back in the machine if you like. To see how grim and awful their world is that being a Cyberman is actually a feasible alternative, loved it. Loved the look of the thing, the gaunt bodies walking around with gauze masks and no eye holes with their IV tubes. The nurse turning down the volume on the guy repeating "pain" over and over. That's the body horror that the original Cybermen had going for them that was progressively lost over the years. The tear thing makes a lot of sense in that perspective (hell, even captain Picard got a tear when he was Assimilated by the Borg) it's also a nice idea that those teardrops on the original Cyberman eye designs is some kind of subconscious nod by the Cybermen themselves to their own state of being: They don't care about their pain, but they wear it, frozen, on their faces all the time.

 

[killienick]

The body horror of that episode was shocking. The "pain", "kill me", and "die me" lines were brutal for Saturday night tea time fare, (classic Who was well known for that horror element but Nu Who has generally shied away).

 

I absolutely loved the look of the Cybermen. The Mondasian Cyberman is, for me, the quintessential Who villain.

 

 

[Bully Wee Villa]

I'll be honest, I always though the Tenth Planet design Cybermen were a bit shite. I think this episode has now elevated them to classic status.

[renton]

14 minutes ago, killienick said:

The body horror of that episode was shocking. The "pain", "kill me", and "die me" lines were brutal for Saturday night tea time fare, (classic Who was well known for that horror element but Nu Who has generally shied away).

I absolutely loved the look of the Cybermen. The Mondasian Cybernan is, for me, the quintessential Who villain.

The other thing that elevates it, is that it's not conversion by other cybermen - it's not the typical "become like us" zombiefication. The conversion is done by other people. Humans.

[NorthernLights]

1 hour ago, killienick said:

My horrible thought is that the Doctor has engineered a computer programme a la the Extremis episode 3 to test Missy and this is all just a trick.

I really, really hope I'm wrong.

I really hope you're wrong too but it is just the sort of BS that Moffat would pull.  I really enjoyed the episode at the weekend and if it turns out its nothing but a simulation I'll be very disappointed.

[killienick]

I'll be honest, I always though the Tenth Planet design Cybermen were a bit shite. I think this episode has now elevated them to classic status.

I think its the cloth face I've always liked/feared. Somehow it just seems much, much scarier.

I think you are right though, this 'Genesis' will probably elevate them to greatness if they weren't already there.

[Fide]

1 hour ago, renton said:

I thought the Cybermen were fantastic. They've been needing that kind of soft-reboot for a while now, to put the man back in the machine if you like. To see how grim and awful their world is that being a Cyberman is actually a feasible alternative, loved it. Loved the look of the thing, the gaunt bodies walking around with gauze masks and no eye holes with their IV tubes. The nurse turning down the volume on the guy repeating "pain" over and over. That's the body horror that the original Cybermen had going for them that was progressively lost over the years. The tear thing makes a lot of sense in that perspective (hell, even captain Picard got a tear when he was Assimilated by the Borg) it's also a nice idea that those teardrops on the original Cyberman eye designs is some kind of subconscious nod by the Cybermen themselves to their own state of being: They don't care about their pain, but they wear it, frozen, on their faces all the time.

 

Oh. I'm not saying the Cybermen weren't good.  it's just that the exact schtick of a cyberman shedding a real, watery tear has been done before.

Anyroad, it looks as if I am on my own in believing it was shite.  Fair do's.  One man's meat is another man's poison and all that.

[dogmc]

Oh. I'm not saying the Cybermen weren't good.  it's just that the exact schtick of a cyberman shedding a real, watery tear has been done before.
Anyroad, it looks as if I am on my own in believing it was shite.  Fair do's.  One man's meat is another man's poison and all that.

I think it was better than some recent episodes but the amount revealed in trailers meant that any dramatic impact was lessened. I'm watching out of habit rather than enjoying it these days. New writers n Dr will hopefully hit the ground running with some original ideas n guts to kill characters off. Really hoping the simulation scenario that was mentioned earlier isn't way this one is headed.

[killienick]

8 hours ago, paulathame said:

Then the next doctor will be traveling with her self  bill doctor and cyberbill modefied into nando.

Nando? Like a spicy chicken?

[harry94]

I thought it was a really good episode but would have been a lot better without the shitty spoilers. I get that the BBC maybe had trouble with leaks but in advance of the episode, I already knew the time thing, the ship being from Mondas, the Cybermen introduction and then the Master returning. I've given the trailer for next week a miss.

[harry94]

3 hours ago, killienick said:

My horrible thought is that the Doctor has engineered a computer programme a la the Extremis episode 3 to test Missy and this is all just a trick.

I really, really hope I'm wrong.

I have that feeling too.

Although it'd be frustrating to the viewer, I think it'd make a lot of sense. The Doctor letting one of his most feared enemies - who has spent an eternity murdering innocent civilians and possesses an intellectual capacity that means he/she has the ability to easily and frequently evade capture, hide and establish evil armies - waltz out of the vault because she's shed a few tears seems so irresponsible and stupid from Capaldi's Doctor. He's always been a bit emotional and had some f**k ups but doesn't shy away from these tough decisions.

If it isn't a simulation, I could see that being the way they write out Bill. She's permanently destroyed but the one way she could be 'saved' but still meet a grim end is if the Doctor uses the simulation technology to have her a pretend nice life while her technology is turned off. It's been a theme that I think will come back in some way.

[killienick]

I have that feeling too.
Although it'd be frustrating to the viewer, I think it'd make a lot of sense. The Doctor letting one of his most feared enemies - who has spent an eternity murdering innocent civilians and possesses an intellectual capacity that means he/she has the ability to easily and frequently evade capture, hide and establish evil armies - waltz out of the vault because she's shed a few tears seems so irresponsible and stupid from Capaldi's Doctor. He's always been a bit emotional and had some f**k ups but doesn't shy away from these tough decisions.
If it isn't a simulation, I could see that being the way they write out Bill. She's permanently destroyed but the one way she could be 'saved' but still meet a grim end is if the Doctor uses the simulation technology to have her a pretend nice life while her technology is turned off. It's been a theme that I think will come back in some way.

That would echo River Song's final/second episode in terms of the way The Doctor 'saves' her. Moffat too I believe.

[killieshire]

7 hours ago, renton said:

The other thing that elevates it, is that it's not conversion by other cybermen - it's not the typical "become like us" zombiefication. The conversion is done by other people. Humans.

Given that a number of the other episodes this season have had messages as subtext I suspect there is a bit in this about people being led or tricked (in Bill's case) by a few humans who are exploiting a bad situation and the general populace then sleep walking into an even worth situation (definitely not a Brexit analogy....).

The sci-fi as a commentary on today's society plus some of the pure sci-fi ideas, such as the time shift between different ends of a massive space ship, have made this enjoyable.

[scottsdad]

I've enjoyed this whole series - except the finale of the 3 parter where love of a memory defeats the evil plans of the monks. That was a bit too Russell T Davies for me. 

This episode though...dark, grim, gritty, utterly excellent. The nurse turning down the volume on the 'pain' cyberman was just brilliant - sci fi legendary good. How do you like that for Saturday night kids tv? My kids were gripped. So was I.

Please, BBC, keep this as a spring show and not feed it to the meat grinder of the autumn when they stick it on too late and put it up against the X factor.

[Im_Rodger]

Series 1-4 outstanding everything after very poor. Moffat cannot leave fast enough.

Every episode except the most recent one have all been poor imo.

Cyberman tear was a load of shite but. I would have accepted an oil tear like in series 2 but that basically confirms to me bill will not die next episode and that'll be typical Stephen Moffat where bill gets superpowers breaks out her cyber suit and kills the master. Fucking yawn.