JinglinGeordie Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 People can’t seem to get their head around the fact that the funds aren’t all in one big pot.The budget of improving Stark’s Park is completely separate to the running of the club.The plastic pitch will be going ahead regardless of whether we stay in this league or not. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Ro Sham Bo said: The players and coaches have had a clear the air meeting. Nothing can stop us now. Thats all right then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALDERON Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, JinglinGeordie said: People can’t seem to get their head around the fact that the funds aren’t all in one big pot. The budget of improving Stark’s Park is completely separate to the running of the club. The plastic pitch will be going ahead regardless of whether we stay in this league or not. Whilst that is true, it's understandable that people would raise a few eyebrows that a club who have the begging bowls out after one postponement are spending six figures on a new pitch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 The "different pots" argument, whilst true, is a terrible one as usual. The money does not have to be spent on the pitch at all, it can easily be reallocated. What is the point in chucking money at a plastic pitch (with a dubious at best business case) when the short term financial situation has deteriorated to the point that next season's money (yes, NEXT SEASON) is being sought to plug the gap now? This is an utterly dreadful situation to be in and pontificating about "improvements" means nothing when the short term reality is that the club is struggling to pay its bills and will be using next season's income to do so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Algorithms Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Paco said: The club lost money on diddy cup matches against Brora and Ross County u20’s. It was a foolish decision to include them. Tbh, it was a foolish decision to play our first team in both of those games. We need to treat that competition like the joke it is. It's fine if you get Dundee United or the Pars, but those are about the two teams we could play who were beneficial financially. The rest is complete dross as no team has an interest. What made it worse was that we lost Lennox and had to get another keeper on board (with that said, questions are now arising of Lennox himself). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinglinGeordie Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 42 minutes ago, Michael W said: The "different pots" argument, whilst true, is a terrible one as usual. The money does not have to be spent on the pitch at all, it can easily be reallocated. What is the point in chucking money at a plastic pitch (with a dubious at best business case) when the short term financial situation has deteriorated to the point that next season's money (yes, NEXT SEASON) is being sought to plug the gap now? This is an utterly dreadful situation to be in and pontificating about "improvements" means nothing when the short term reality is that the club is struggling to pay its bills and will be using next season's income to do so. It's not terrible at all. John Sim and David Sinton own Stark's Park Properties which obviously owns the stadium in which the club pays rent to use. Last season the rent on the stadium hadn't been paid for months, this is one of the reasons John Sim decided to go one step further and buy a majority in the club under Stark's Park Properties. A budget was then set for the running of the club to obviously to cover coaching and playing staff and other running costs. Meanwhile the funds in Stark's Park Properties is entirely up to John Sim and David Sinton with how they want to use them, whether that's to put additional funds in to the club or to use it to upgrade the stadium. The project of changing the surface of Stark's Park as well as potentially demolishing the Railway Stand to allow for more hospitality spaces is the decision of John Sim and David Sinton as owners of the stadium. They believe, and I agree, this will benefit the club in the long term as it COULD bring in more revenue from the community but it will definitely save the club costs on paying for other pitches for the youth teams to play on and the teams to train on. The recent statement about season tickets is clearly a short-term cash flow issue, but nonetheless can be viewed as quite worrying. The reassuring thing is if push came to shove I'd feel comfortable in the fact that Sim would be able to dig us out a hole because there are clearly funds there. However, from a business point of view it seems completely necessary to try and obtain the funds in other ways, like encouraging early bird season ticket offers, before Sim having to put money in himself as a last resort. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Different pots is too often used to brush off criticism of financial management. It's fine as a concept but when we're caught short it starts looks inflexible to the point of being irritating. The problem is that bringing in next season's money now in turn means there is less of it to pay next season and we could end up in the same position again. Either that or the budget for next season is cut to compensate for this. Neither is desirable but I'd take the latter in that instance. Season ticket money is the most valuable money the club has - it's "there" and discretionary factors don't apply - we don't have that luxury with walk ups (even though they pay more) or community use income from the as-of-yet not not laid pitch. Getting it too early is not good. The most troubling aspect is that this has come off the back of a single postponement - it's not acceptable and an acknowledgement of this would not go amiss. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinglinGeordie Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Michael W said: Different pots is too often used to brush off criticism of financial management. It's fine as a concept but when we're caught short it starts looks inflexible to the point of being irritating. The problem is that bringing in next season's money now in turn means there is less of it to pay next season and we could end up in the same position again. Either that or the budget for next season is cut to compensate for this. Neither is desirable but I'd take the latter in that instance. Season ticket money is the most valuable money the club has - it's "there" and discretionary factors don't apply - we don't have that luxury with walk ups (even though they pay more) or community use income from the as-of-yet not not laid pitch. Getting it too early is not good. The most troubling aspect is that this has come off the back of a single postponement - it's not acceptable and an acknowledgement of this would not go amiss. It's not at all, if anything it's strict financial management. It's pretty simple, John Sim gave the club a budget for the season which they've now overstretched themselves on. Now fans are expecting John Sim to take money out of a separate project, which will benefit one of his assets, to sort this cash flow issue. I completely agree the club has mismanaged their budget, that's a separate point. I just find it ridiculous that fans bring up the plastic pitch project which is entirely separate. I also completely agree that season ticket money is the most valuable income a club has, it's unfortunate that we've not had a home match for over a month so have to take these measures to raise finances. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, Zen Archer said: Suppose it's better than,"took us 90 minutes to dig us half way out our short term hole", or "it only took us 90 minutes to dig ourselves a bigger hole for next season, hurry up and help us dig ourselves deeper in the shit". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachbum Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 36 minutes ago, JinglinGeordie said: It's not at all, if anything it's strict financial management. It's pretty simple, John Sim gave the club a budget for the season which they've now overstretched themselves on. Now fans are expecting John Sim to take money out of a separate project, which will benefit one of his assets, to sort this cash flow issue. I completely agree the club has mismanaged their budget, that's a separate point. I just find it ridiculous that fans bring up the plastic pitch project which is entirely separate. I also completely agree that season ticket money is the most valuable income a club has, it's unfortunate that we've not had a home match for over a month so have to take these measures to raise finances. You're not John Sim, are you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro Sham Bo Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 15 minutes ago, ayrmad said: Suppose it's better than,"took us 90 minutes to dig us half way out our short term hole", or "it only took us 90 minutes to dig ourselves a bigger hole for next season, hurry up and help us dig ourselves deeper in the shit". At least we are proving we can dig ourselves into a hole in the space of 90 minutes both on and off the pitch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrfsee Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Ok lets look at this another way. Yes it's scary using next seasons money but if the plastic pitch goes ahead how much do we save on training costs for 1st team, Development squad (training and games) and Ladies (Training and games)? I don't know the numbers but taking into consideration all the above and possible rental money would that equate to the season tickets sold today? I just don't know does anyone have the figures to enlighten us? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher brash Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Personally was surprised when I went to Starks today and saw the queue ! Waited an hour until getting to the front and what I could see was a mixture of season tickets that were being purchased (going by the colours) Regarding the idea behind the early bird and the criticism the board are receiving I’m nor for or against the current board however no one knows the exact figures that are involved in running our club but I believe they are sticking to a budget unlike previous boards which spent money we don’t have. As for the plastic pitch this will clearly be subsidised by (Sim and Sinton Starks Park properties) and the season ticket money will go towards the playing staff, coaches etc. I believe we will miss out this season on promotion but will have a better chance next season especially getting season ticket money in early which will give us a head start on other teams regarding recruitment 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placidcasual Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 A Fife club operating as a financial basket case? Quelle surprise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher brash Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, placidcasual said: A Fife club operating as a financial basket case? Quelle surprise. Cute coming from an Ayr United fan who haven’t spent a penny on there ground for about 30 years? What happens when your forced to spend money on your ground? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers_Lad Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 hours ago, JinglinGeordie said: It's not at all, if anything it's strict financial management. It's pretty simple, John Sim gave the club a budget for the season which they've now overstretched themselves on. Now fans are expecting John Sim to take money out of a separate project, which will benefit one of his assets, to sort this cash flow issue. I completely agree the club has mismanaged their budget, that's a separate point. I just find it ridiculous that fans bring up the plastic pitch project which is entirely separate. I also completely agree that season ticket money is the most valuable income a club has, it's unfortunate that we've not had a home match for over a month so have to take these measures to raise finances. SPP and the club used to operate as seperate entities but now come under the same umbrella with John Sim calling the shots so directly or indirectly hes part responsible for mismanagement,overstrectching of the budget. Now all it has taken is one postponement for us to be left with cash flow issue resulting in asking the fans to help make it up.Hardly good housekeeping 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumswall Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 When we spent money on the stadium it was a slippery slope that left us with a shite ground and on the brink of financial ruin so iv no idea why that's a point to score against anyone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank conner Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, placidcasual said: A Fife club operating as a financial basket case? Quelle surprise. Ayr are debt free of course 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinglinGeordie Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Rovers_Lad said: SPP and the club used to operate as seperate entities but now come under the same umbrella with John Sim calling the shots so directly or indirectly hes part responsible for mismanagement,overstrectching of the budget. Now all it has taken is one postponement for us to be left with cash flow issue resulting in asking the fans to help make it up.Hardly good housekeeping They are not the same entity. SPP own a majority in the club but are not responsible for the day-to-day running of the club. The chairman is responsible for the running of the club and financial mismanagement comes when SPP are expected to patch up these mismanagements to the detriment of other projects. The financial mismanagement is a result of many things; we haven't had a home match in over a month, our injury bill will be stacking up AGAIN and we've done absolutely nothing of note in any of the cups this season. As well as that we're also now probably not going to win the league which means the remaining home matches will be below season average. My point remains, in hindsight the club has mismanaged the budget given by SPP in many ways as well as being unlucky in others, but as fans we can't start bemoaning the other business decisions of SPP because of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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